Fire Alarms in Buildings (2.0)

Discussion of all things related to fire alarms, including alarm systems, fire alarm collections, sirens, sprinklers, fire drills, evacuations, actual fires, building architecture, other kinds of safety drills like tornado and earthquake drills and such, etc.
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randomperson
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El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
FireFinder XLS and Cerberus Pro Modular are 100% identical except for the yellow color scheme. The name change was made in 2016, so if the mall was just upgraded, the new system is a Cerberus Pro Modular. Migration kits are available to install Cerberus Pro Modular equipment into an existing MXL cabinet.

As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017.

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El Chupacabra
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randomperson wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Since the pulls in the new part were installed when the MXLV was expanded (around 2016), they're most likely MSI-30BCs. They're two-stage models with bilingual lettering, and they feature the Siemens logo at the top.

The old pull stations are likely still compliant. I'm surprised, however, that such a large building would retain conventional devices despite having undergone two system upgrades in the past two decades. It would seem far more practical to have a fully-intelligent setup in this type of installation. If the pull stations were to be upgraded, my guess is that they would be replaced with HMS-2Ss (which, as you mentioned, would look identical to the MSI-30BCs) as I haven't seen any data sheets mentioning ULC-listed XMS models (or two-stage XMS models).
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El Chupacabra wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:23 pm
randomperson wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Since the pulls in the new part were installed when the MXLV was expanded (around 2016), they're most likely MSI-30BCs. They're two-stage models with bilingual lettering, and they feature the Siemens logo at the top.

If the pull stations were to be upgraded, my guess is that they would be replaced with HMS-2Ss (which, as you mentioned, would look identical to the MSI-30BCs)
Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017.

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El Chupacabra
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randomperson wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:34 pm Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
That's interesting; I wasn't aware of this lack of compatibility between Siemens protocols. If I understand correctly, it would be possible to retain the FirePrint detectors and MSI-30BC pull stations on the Cerberus PRO Modular with the use of an MLC module, but it would be impossible to mix the new OP921 detectors with the old pull stations (or vice-versa).

While this seems unlikely, another possibility is that conventional pull stations (MS-53Cs) were used in the addition to match the setup in the existing part of the mall.

I have seen those Kidde-branded FM950s at South Station. If I recall correctly, they were paired with older Wheelock ET speaker/strobes (with the 7002-style strobe). Quite an interesting setup!
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El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm
randomperson wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:34 pm Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
That's interesting; I wasn't aware of this lack of compatibility between Siemens protocols. If I understand correctly, it would be possible to retain the FirePrint detectors and MSI-30BC pull stations on the Cerberus PRO Modular with the use of an MLC module, but it would be impossible to mix the new OP921 detectors with the old pull stations (or vice-versa).
Yes, that is correct.
I have seen those Kidde-branded FM950s at South Station. If I recall correctly, they were paired with older Wheelock ET speaker/strobes (with the 7002-style strobe). Quite an interesting setup!
Most of those old speaker/strobes have been replaced.
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A hospital near me has a Johnson Controls system from what I would say is around 1990. There are Simplex / Johnson Controls mechanical chimes on the older strobe plates (Upwards configuration), except near the podiatry area, where there is one early 2000s strobe plate (Also in the upwards configuration). Further back in the building near OT, there are ceiling mounts of what to appear to be CH90s or some pyrotronics variant (like what Wheelove Fire Alarms has). I could identify it as a Johnson Controls system because the pull stations were Johnson Controls BG-12LXs* and the annunciator at the clinic entrance is also branded Johnson Controls.

*NOTE: There is one 20(or 40)99 series pull with a hammer and glass plate.

Also, there is a newer urgent care building nearby (same provider) that has a brand-spanking-new Johnson Controls system. CH70s and the Johnson Controls BG-12LXs are the main theme. There are Johnson Controls branded smokes in the building as well. I did see some kind of stopper station behind a desk. It was white, and said something like "LOCKDOWN" I think. No confirmation.

DISCLAIMER: I will not disclose locations due to concerns about privacy. Also, I do not know about all the alarms because I have not been through the whole building (and probably will never).
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