The "Mysterious" 2901-9838!

So, roughly six months back, I bought this 2901-9838. It was really hard finding these alarms, and I was really psyched when I did find this exact one (it was also NIB too!). I tested this alarm out when I got it. But when I did and first heard it, I was confused because it didn’t sound like the -9838 I’VE heard before. Hmm, strange. I posted a video of this -9838 in action on YouTube (see below). Other people on YouTube also noticed the sound difference too.

So today someone commented that this is NOT a -9838, but rather a -9846. This has to do in part with the grille itself. Interesting…

Now, I’m trying to dig deeper and find out who or which company made this horn, and confirm if this really is a -9846, because this horn isn’t a usual -9846 EITHER. In fact, this particular horn uses the circuit board design, and not the regular -9838/-9846 like design (see pictures of the backs of -9838s/-9846s). The circuit board design was used on alarms such as the Simplex 4903 -9219/-9217/-9215, and some of the Siemens U-HN series horns/horn strobes. I’m also wondering if this horn isn’t even a Faraday horn, but rather a Federal Signal horn. I thought Federal Signal was the one who used the circuit board designed horns, but I could be wrong. Very interesting. I tried searching the model number of this exact horn, but I’m not quite finding anything :?.

Please quote me if I’m wrong with anything :wink:

I have included pictures below of my now so-called “-9846”. Take a look:

I thought this was interesting observation, and maybe you guys would be interested :wink:. You can also help solve this “mystery” if you like. I think some “mislabeling” might’ve been involved with this mystery…

This looks like a Simplex 9817 horn. They used the newer Faraday horn mechanism with the circuit board, while retaining the grill from the 9838.

The 9846 was a 100db version of the 9838. It used the older Faraday horn mechanism and was visually identical to the 9838.

[quote=kcin556 post_id=81015 time=1531693940 user_id=2844]

This looks like a Simplex 9817 horn. They used the newer Faraday horn mechanism with the circuit board, while retaining the grill from the 9838.

The 9846 was a 100db version of the 9838. It used the older Faraday horn mechanism and was visually identical to the 9838.

[/quote]

I think you solved my question! Wow thanks :). After typing in the -9817 into a search, I found this video right here that I think solves the question: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=MO70ER7mgOE.

So I guess the horn itself might’ve came from a 4901-9805 :?. This is still a Faraday horn, it’s just the newer one. Federal Signal from what I remember mainly stuck with “VibraTone”-like horns (F.S. still makes VibraTones as a matter of fact today). So there’s no association with F.S. in this case. Dang, it’s almost like I was fooled for a “copy” 2901-9838 :(. On the bright side, it’s neat though that I found this out! Interesting stuff

Well, it’s no matter now that it’s a “copy”, since I myself made a “real” -9838 by taking a Faraday/FOS 6120 horn and putting the -9838 grill on top, thus creating a “real” -9838. Here’s what it looks like :):

Here’s a quick question: Is there a way to change the pitch on that -9817 horn? If so, then how do you do it? If not, then no matter. Just curious.

Thanks a ton for your help, kcin556! :slight_smile:

[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81016 time=1531697955 user_id=4326]

Here’s a quick question: Is there a way to change the pitch on that -9817 horn? If so, then how do you do it? If not, then no matter. Just curious.

[/quote]

I believe you can still slightly adjust the tab on the rear of the horn just like the normal 9838, but I would be careful since the circuit boards tends to be slight temperamental versus the older mechanically switched horns.

I believe what you have is a 4901 horn in a 2901-9838 grille. This is either a later variant of the 2901 series with the circuit board, or either the grille was originally intended for a -9838, but ended up on a 4901 horn. How do you tell a -9838 grille from a -9817? The -9817 has “Simplex” in a font: either, IIRC, Eras ITC, Calibri, or Segoe UI. The -9838 has it in an Arial or Helvetica font. This variation of this newer Faraday horn was known by Faraday as the 6220 series.

[quote=thegeet post_id=81020 time=1531704372 user_id=3758] The -9817 has "Simplex" in a font: either, IIRC, Eras ITC, Calibri, or Segoe UI. [/quote]

I’m pretty sure the font is Frutiger.

[quote=kcin556 post_id=81017 time=1531698152 user_id=2844] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81016 time=1531697955 user_id=4326]

Here’s a quick question: Is there a way to change the pitch on that -9817 horn? If so, then how do you do it? If not, then no matter. Just curious.

[/quote]

I believe you can still slightly adjust the tab on the rear of the horn just like the normal 9838, but I would be careful since the circuit boards tends to be slight temperamental versus the older mechanically switched horns.

[/quote]

I see. Do you mean the black plastic tab on the back? THIS black tab that is:

Hmm, maybe I should lay off this idea. Just to make sure I don’t break anything (especially the plastic black tab) :wink:

Again thank you for your help

[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81025 time=1531709789 user_id=4326]

I see. Do you mean the black plastic tab on the back? THIS black tab that is:

[/quote]

It would be the metal tab under the plastic, but that’s the correct location.

I wouldn’t want to pull on that plastic tab either. You would want to shift its position with the metal, not bend the plastic itself.

[quote=thegeet post_id=81020 time=1531704372 user_id=3758]

I believe what you have is a 4901 horn in a 2901-9838 grille. This is either a later variant of the 2901 series with the circuit board, or either the grille was originally intended for a -9838, but ended up on a 4901 horn. How do you tell a -9838 grille from a -9817? The -9817 has “Simplex” in a font: either, IIRC, Eras ITC, Calibri, or Segoe UI. The -9838 has it in an Arial or Helvetica font. This variation of this newer Faraday horn was known by Faraday as the 6220 series.

[/quote]

You’re probably correct. I found this eBay listing right here: Simplex 4901-9817 328m Audible Sound Signal Red Horn Alarm & Wall Cover for sale online | eBay.

This is a 4901-9817. The horn looks pratically identical to that of mine. Very interesting

So, mislabeling could’ve taken a big role in this. Either it was mislabeled by the factory who made this alarm, or some previous owner or the original owner did this mislabeling. Funny, the horn itself didn’t even FIT the box it came with :lol:, so there’s a sign right there

[quote=kcin556 post_id=81026 time=1531710266 user_id=2844] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81025 time=1531709789 user_id=4326]

I see. Do you mean the black plastic tab on the back? THIS black tab that is:

[/quote]

It would be the metal tab under the plastic, but that’s the correct location.

I wouldn’t want to pull on that plastic tab either. You would want to shift its position with the metal, not bend the plastic itself.

[/quote]

Ah okay. Hmm I wonder how much of a difference the sound would even be if I pull on the metal tab :?. Would pulling up be a higher pitch? Because currently the alarm has a lower pitch as opposed to the Faraday 6120. Kind of sounds more like a -9833.

I’m not 100% sure about this, but there is a slight possibility that your horn hasn’t been mislabeled or altered. In my collection, I have a 12901-9801 (Canadian 2901-9838) that is equipped with the older Faraday mechanism traditionally seen on 9838s. However, here is another 12901-9801 that uses the newer Faraday mechanism (despite having the same model number as mine).

I have no idea if this was only done in Canada, but it points to the possibility that certain later 9838s were assembled using the newer mechanism. Perhaps the 9817 was a high-output version of the later 9838/9801, as the 9817’s label claims that it draws .065 amps, while the label on the newer 12901-9801 lists a current draw of .038 amps. The only thing that seems odd in your case is, as you mentioned, the fact that your horn did not fit properly in its box.

Here is a similar one to thefirealarm9’s: https://m.ebay.com/itm/-/173044715765?_trksid=p2501496.m2548.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc

[quote=thegeet post_id=81038 time=1531764422 user_id=3758]

Here is a similar one to thefirealarm9’s: https://m.ebay.com/itm/-/173044715765?_trksid=p2501496.m2548.l10137&nordt=true&rt=nc

[/quote]

That’s actually the exact one lol :D!

[quote="El Chupacabra" post_id=81035 time=1531744146 user_id=2572]

I’m not 100% sure about this, but there is a slight possibility that your horn hasn’t been mislabeled or altered. In my collection, I have a 12901-9801 (Canadian 2901-9838) that is equipped with the older Faraday mechanism traditionally seen on 9838s. However, here is another 12901-9801 that uses the newer Faraday mechanism (despite having the same model number as mine).

I have no idea if this was only done in Canada, but it points to the possibility that certain later 9838s were assembled using the newer mechanism. Perhaps the 9817 was a high-output version of the later 9838/9801, as the 9817’s label claims that it draws .065 amps, while the label on the newer 12901-9801 lists a current draw of .038 amps. The only thing that seems odd in your case is, as you mentioned, the fact that your horn did not fit properly in its box.

[/quote]

That is some interesting information you found there. Yeah my original guess was that this -9838 was a newer or later version. I have no clue about the -9817 (because I don’t own one), but maybe you’re right and mislabeling was not a factor, or there’s still more we need to draw a conclusion :?.

All of this is very good finds! Thanks again to all who are and is helping me solve this “so-called” mystery :lol:!

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that Faraday took care of the labeling of Simplex’s devices. As we know, Faraday switched to that horn mechanism around 1994 when the ADA strobe mandates went into effect. At this point, Simplex had just released their 4900 Series plastic-body signals and nomenclature. Maybe Faraday still had -9838 labeled grilles to use up before the body migrated to the 4900 nomenclature, but ran out of the 6020/6120 mechanisms? Just a thought.

[quote="El Chupacabra" post_id=81035 time=1531744146 user_id=2572]

I’m not 100% sure about this, but there is a slight possibility that your horn hasn’t been mislabeled or altered. In my collection, I have a 12901-9801 (Canadian 2901-9838) that is equipped with the older Faraday mechanism traditionally seen on 9838s. However, here is another 12901-9801 that uses the newer Faraday mechanism (despite having the same model number as mine).

I have no idea if this was only done in Canada, but it points to the possibility that certain later 9838s were assembled using the newer mechanism. Perhaps the 9817 was a high-output version of the later 9838/9801, as the 9817’s label claims that it draws .065 amps, while the label on the newer 12901-9801 lists a current draw of .038 amps. The only thing that seems odd in your case is, as you mentioned, the fact that your horn did not fit properly in its box.

[/quote]

That is weird. That one, other than the amperage, is the same as my -9817.

I just noticed that the label on the OP’s 9838 lists a current draw of .035 amps (same as my 12901-9801 with the traditional Faraday mechanism), differing from the current draw shown on the newer 9801 featured in my previous post (.038 amps). This inconsistency seems somewhat odd. I’m also surprised to see that the newer model has a higher current draw than the older one, as I would have expected it to be the other way around.

On a side note, it seems that my hypothesis regarding the 9817 is correct. I consulted the datasheet for the Cerberus Pyrotronics-branded versions of these horns and noticed that the HN models draw .038 amps (same as the newer 9801 from my previous post), while the high-output HNH models draw .065 amps (same as the 9817).

Long-time lurker here, finally made an account since I might be able to contribute.

I think El Chupacabra is right that some later 9838s were assembled with the newer mechanism. The dorm I lived in last year was full of them: labeled 2901-9838 on the bottom edge, old font, but with the silver horn behind the grille, mounted on 9105 strobe plates. I seem to recall them sounding a bit more like OP’s video than others on Youtube. The building was built in 1993, panel was a 4100 classic, and some areas of the building had 9219s instead, all of which lead me to believe the place was built right at the end of the 9838 production cycle.

[quote=gpburdell post_id=81047 time=1531784323 user_id=4666]

Long-time lurker here, finally made an account since I might be able to contribute.

I think El Chupacabra is right that some later 9838s were assembled with the newer mechanism. The dorm I lived in last year was full of them: labeled 2901-9838 on the bottom edge, old font, but with the silver horn behind the grille, mounted on 9105 strobe plates. I seem to recall them sounding a bit more like OP’s video than others on Youtube. The building was built in 1993, panel was a 4100 classic, and some areas of the building had 9219s instead, all of which lead me to believe the place was built right at the end of the 9838 production cycle.

[/quote]

So my original guess could’ve be correct? Wow, fascinating! I could see these “silver-grill’d” -9838s being on -9105 strobe plates. Because usually the orignal “black-grill’d” -9838s were mounted on -9101 strobes plates as opposed to the -9105 strobe plates (unless it was a renovation or something like that). The -9838 in general I think was discontinued completely in 1995 or somewhere in the mid-90s. So, that would mean the circuit board designed horns could’ve been introduced in the early-90s about. Yeah, and that would mean the -9838 I have might’ve been one of the “final production” units of the -9838s. All of this is just assumption, but it’s very interesting.

I believe Destin (thesdx) also had a -9838 kind of like this :-/ (at least the silver-grill model that is). It was also on a -9105 strobe plate. But maybe I’m wrong. Honestly this is cool stuff we’re find out :slight_smile:

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for? :stuck_out_tongue:

[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81048 time=1531790301 user_id=4326]

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for?

[/quote]

Original Poster. In this case, you :smiley: