If all goes well, within the next few months I should be getting, both a Simplex 4010 and a 4002.
My school district is getting the FA systems in all buildings replaced, but with used panels, there comes issues. So I have a few questions about both panels.
Simplex 4002:
What are the exact dimensions of the panel? The only information I’ve been able to find in the manual is:
The one at the school is a 2 unit from what I remember.
Simplex 4010 (This panel may not be a 4010, but from what the office reluctantly told me was it said something “like 4010” on it):
With the 4010 I have a lot of questions as its a more modern panel with access codes and software used to program it.
What should I do when it comes to access codes, I know the default ones, but I would think the installer changed them, the installer does not seem to exist anymore, but I do have the phone # used to contact them, I have heard rumors of a backdoor to factory reset the panel (if you know this please DM it to me don’t publicly post it)
I have heard all options of the 4010 can be programmed at the panel, but after a lot of googling, I have seen info on a Simplex 4010 Programmer, does anyone have a copy of this, and do you think I would have any luck contacting Simplex about it?
Not exactly sure of what you are asking about the dimensions. The same page with the 4002 box size chart shows the box width at 25 3/4" and the box depth with door at 4 15/16". Allow an additional height and width for the overlap of the door and some additional clearance on the hinge side for the door to open.
The 4002 is a DIP switch programmable conventional hardwire panel. If the ESP (Expanded Simplex Programming) chip (Xicor X2004) is installed, custom programming can be done. Originally that was entered from the front panel (in binary) using the switches, buttons, and LEDs. Later a computer program was developed for programming using an interface box that connects to the panel. The interface boxes have not been made in many years. Probably most are lost and gone. Any computer faster than a 486-25 will not successfully communicate with the panel.
The 4010 is a small IDNet addressable panel. The base panel can be programmed through the front panel. Addition of certain I/O cards require using the programmer software. That software is security key protected. The keys are only available through Simplex. A very detailed legal document has to be signed and there is a substantial $$ cost is involved. I don’t know if a hobbyist has ever obtained one.
Thanks for the reply, about the width, the copy I was using was on the installers old website, the part where it said the width was too blurry, after checking the version on FireAlarmResources.com I can see that now. Also I figured Simplex would charge big bucks for the software. Does anyone know about a backdoor into the 4010 though? I would guess there is one, and have seen other topics about one, but it has only been stated in DM for security to my understanding. (I can’t find these at the moment, but this was before the database crashed when I originally went out looking, so they may be gone)
Update and another question:
The company has been very vague, I am still gathering info, but from what I have been told, they scrapped the 4010 and most of its devices, I have gotten on the phone with the uninstaller, but only to a voicemail. If I can’t get a the panel from them, I’ll be looking into a SFIO board I found on eBay as I still badly want a 4010, so in order to get the SFIO board up and running what parts do I need, I was looking at some documents on firealarmresources.com but I haven’t made sense of it yet. Crossing my fingers here, but the 4002 I still might be able to get, but it would be nice to also have an IDNet and Smart-Sync capable, more modern panel.
If I can offer you some advice here, wait until you have the right opportunity to get a complete unit before diving into a project like this. Attempting to build a panel from parts has seldom worked out well for enthusiasts in the community…you will likely end up spending hundreds of dollars collecting parts, and there is no guarantee they will work correctly together once assembled.
But, just my 2 cents. I won’t stop anyone from helping you if you really want to pursue it!
I agree and am taking the risks into account, this is more of what parts to I need to get the board working, so if I can find say something that’s missing one or two parts like an SFIO I may be able to get it working, I have about a $350-400 budget, I’ve seen panels go at this price, but can’t find one for under $675ish at the moment. In the past I’ve found a few units that having missing/dead SFIOs and was hoping I could find one similar, before really trying to build from parts as it is possible that it may not be 100% compatible with say the revision of one and other. But to be fair you make a very good point.
The SFIO board with the display attached is the complete base panel circuitry. If you find one in that condition a transformer and bridge rectifier are needed (there is a transformer on Ebay) to get it running. The bridge rectifier is mounted to the chassis as a heat sink.
If the one you are looking at also has the metal base plate that is a plus. Several places the SFIO board uses connections to the steel plate at mounting screws as ground connections for suppression devices and the ground fault sensor reference.
Several of the terminal strips are plug-able. Be sure to check that the board comes with the part that plugs in so there are screw terminals.
A battery harness can be made with parts available from various sources. There is a jumper harness (red wires) that is needed to fake out the expansion power supply supervision. Check to see if it comes with the SFIO board.
I found the specs on the bridge rectifier. Simplex used a Fairchild GBPC3501 35 amp 70 volt RMS 100 volt maximum bridge.
The bridge mounts to the back of the SFIO mounting frame. So if a board comes with the frame the bridge might still be there.
Thanks so much for the help, been very busy with school so haven’t done much searching on eBay, but I did get to pick up the panel from my old school.
The vagueness was the person I called really didn’t know, the 4010 was trashed due to miscommunication between the techs and the electrician. Although I have picked up the 4002 and some devices. I haven’t finished reading through the wiring diagrams, but here are some pictures from the inside:
Sadly the door was damaged
Panel Info
Sorry for the big images wasn’t able to shrink much more, and cant do spoilers, mods feel free to remove them
The thing I found odd was that every switch on SW1 and SW2 were in the ON position, so I am questioning if this has an ESP in it, I took pictures of where most of the removable chips are on the CPU board.
In addition to the CPU/Power Supply assembly you have a 4 IDC expansion and a 4 AUX Relay expansion. So this panel has 12 IDC, 2 NAC, and 6 AUX Relays.
The normal position of those two switch packages is on. Switches are turned off to enable features.
The panel does not have ESP. The X2004 NOVRAM chip goes in the empty socket next to the 4002 operating system chip. That has the white label on it with the part number, REV 1.15, and other information on it. There are some X2004 chips listed on Ebay.
Thanks for the info, the following from the wiring diagram is what confused me:
Id like to be able to do something with ESP, but that will be too advanced for me at this time, after I get the panel up and running Ill do some research on it.
I also have a 4009(-9001) NAC extender that was pulled from the system. According to the labels on the black plastic cover, AUX1 was being used as City2, although both were on bypass, the electricians were unsure why, but guessed it had something to do from when they uninstalled. There was also a DMP XR5SL tied into another one of the relays as a communicator. (they gave me this, but I’ve heard bad things about getting into used DMP stuff) So I think that explains most of the expansion done to the panel.
After a quick search ESP can only be done by a “the Expanded Simplex Programming (ESP) option must be ordered and programmed by local Simplex Branch Office Personnel.” although I still will try to find out some info on it, and possibly talk to the local Simplex branch.
The description of Switch 2-2 is better in the switch legend I posted from the installation manual. If turned off it disables the Manual Evac button from doing anything.
There is some ESP information in the Fire Alarm Resources and I think I have more.
If a Xicor X2004 chip is put in the socket next to the operating system chip the panel then has ESP. Originally programming was through the front panel switches and LEDs. Later a program and interface box was produced so the panel can be programmed from a computer. It takes an older computer because anything faster than a 486-25 sends commands to the 4002 faster than it can process them.
I can dig up some more documentation on the 4009-9001 NAC Extender.
Ill have to try to track down a keypad for it, the thing I found odd was it didn’t have one tied in at all, but I have never touched a piece of DMP equipment before this so maybe it wasn’t required. Ill try to find out if an access code was set from the installer, although I still wonder if they actually exist. From what I was told they no longer install and only monitor and service their old installs. (This was NOT from the actual company so I do not know for sure)
I’ve had a hard time finding stuff for the 4009-9001, most info I’ve found online is for one with an IDNet module installed.
If you find stuff on ESP let me know, I personally after reading stuff from Fire Alarm Resources I may find it useful, Ill see if I can find an Xicor X2004 on Newark (element14) or eBay
Fortunately one of the nice things about DMP is that any 2 line DMP keypad, even the blocky ones from the 90s, are compatible with DMP panels. Therefore it doesn’t matter if it’s a 690, a thinline, an aqualite, a glass touch, etc, they’ll all work on those panels. Unlike a lot of other brands.
However the LED keypads and the single line vacuum fluorescent keypads (which resemble a Radionics keypad) won’t work, so stay away from those. DMP keypads are fairly easy to find on ebay for a decent enough price as well. Make sure it has a wiring harness with it though as they don’t have a terminal block and are pretty much useless without the harness.
That’s good to hear, since the only keypad I could find that was for DMP fire products was over $100. On Monday I’ll see if I can get and info on a code. I think I found a decent price for a DMP 7160-W ($45) NOB (New Open Box), the listing also states that it works with all DMP panels. $45 seems to be the common price for them, will ask seller to make sure it has its harness.
Interestingly, the fire keypad is just a regular DMP keypad’s circuit board screwed to the back of a fancy face plate, and four buttons added. Pretty neat how simple DMP makes this stuff.
