Simplex Help

Hey guys,

Had a salesperson reach out about the possibility of adding an annunciator to this system. Deal is all of the building is empty with the exception of the 2nd floor. The fire panel, is not on the second floor. The fire marshal is requiring them to have an annunciator on the second floor. I don’t know much about Simplex but I do know, this is OLD. TO me, it seems like it would take an extreme amount of cable (per zone?) and I extremely unsure if we could even get one? I am guessing the picture of the red panel is an annunciator?

Any help with this would be appreciated. Panel model, annunciator, etc etc…

Thanks Guys!

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The panel is a 2001-8001 and the annunciator is a 4300 series. That panel was last manufactured in 1987 because it was replaced by the original 4100 panel in 1988. That makes it at least 30 years old. I can’t come up with an exact annunciator model number because the 4300 series came in a number of variations. It really doesn’t matter because those are not available any more either.

There was a card that would be installed in the 2001 to drive a second annunciator to keep them both supervised and not overload the zone card annunciator output. It took one card for every 8 zones, and a whole lots of wiring. Of course those have not been made in 30 years either.

You might be able to get an annunciator from Space Age Electronics. They have a line of LED units that could parallel the existing annunciator that might be low enough current draw to not overload the 2001 annunciator outputs. It would require a common wire and one wire for each zone. Then add several wires to operate the trouble signal and reset switch.

Good luck.

Roughly what I was thinking. I appreciate the quick response and your suggestions.

A quick glance shows rouhhly 32 zones so youre @ 33 wiree PLUS whatever extra ill need tl operate the switches remotely. Thats all IF we can find something that MIGHT work. To be frank it’s likely just time to move on. The customer doesn’t wanna hear that but it is what it is.

Thanks again!

Ah, count again. I see 35 zone modules in the panel. Each of those is 2 zones, so that makes 70 zones. The annunciator has 64 zones showing in the picture and some of it is not shown.

Dumb question, but why an annunciator on the second floor? I know it sounds like a FM requirement, but a rather silly one if I say so. Building occupants are not normally concerned with operating the fire alarm system once it is activated. In fact, most places it is illegal for them to silence the fire alarm, only the fire department can do so. And as far as the occupants knowing the location of the fire, again, not their concern. The alarm goes off, they get out. The purpose of the annunciator is more for the fire department to know the location of the fire when they arrive. Thus, it would be located at the primary entry (main lobby). Unless you are talking health care and it’s defend in place. Just wondering!

hand them a bill for an upgrade to a new head end that can support an annunciator on the second floor since the original equipment is no longer available. just takes a panel with a ton of 3-idc 8’s or whatever you’d use on an est to take over conventional zones.

then have the customer take that to the FM and try to get out of having to do any of it because of the large financial impact for something that isn’t even code but just the FM’s request. he might not budge, but that’s their best bet.

I totally agree Lambda. However, when the AHJ says he wants it, it is what it is.

I counted the cards but forgot to multiply by 2, lol.

I knew it was going to be a monster but figured I’d atleast ask you simplex guys.

Also, we could throw 3-IDC’s at it but you’re basically prolonging the inevitable. If they paying we’d sure do it lol…

You’re correct that the AHJ most often gets what he wants.

Get a bid to upgrade the 2001 with a 4100ES. It would take nine 8 zone monitor cards to pick up the zones. The 4100 card takes the same 3.3K EOLR as the 2001 cards so those don’t have to be changed. Abandon the old annunciator and install two LCD annunciators. I only see one two circuit signal module so the SPS would take care of signals. The 2001 used 15K EOLR for signal circuits, the 4100 uses 10K, so two resistors to locate and change. I see one multi-function switch card and two fused reset cards. Add an eight point relay card to replace what they are doing. There is a march time module, software replaces that. There are kits to install 4100 equipment in 2001 boxes so those don’t have to be replaced.

The small box has the only power supply and a battery charger visible. The SPS replaces those. The only mystery is what is under those blank panels on the smaller box? Is it empty space left for expansion? Or is it a ton of relays doing selective functions? It could be anything. Have to get brave and take a look.

Oh, I know. I was just wondering if he had a justification for it. I’ve been on sites where they will want a strobe installed here or a detector here and they usually have a reason. This just seems like the oddest “requirement” I’ve hear of in a long time!

But it’s funny that Chris mentioned just quoting a panel upgrade. I kind of can’t help to think MAYBE the FM wants to force them to upgrade the system because he knows adding another annunciator to the 2nd floor would be almost impossible, even if you are able to find all the parts to make it work.

Forcing them to upgrade probably has a lot to do with it honestly.