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 Post subject: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 8:45 pm 
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I was wondering if there is a max for the AH you can use for a battery backup for your security system. In the DMP manual for the xr150/550 it says you can use 4x18Ah batteries for 72 hours of standby power. Would there be any problem with increasing that to 6 batteries so you have an even longer standby hour #. It's starts with 24 hrs (2 batteries), 60 hrs(3 batteries), and then 72hrs(4 batteries). Would it be a problem to exceed that to 5 or 6 batteries?

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:10 pm 
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You would eventually max out the battery charging circuit, the panel can only supply so much current. DMP models XR100/150/500/550 supply 1.0A to the charging circuit, enough for three batteries. The XR200 (out of production) could handle up to four at 1.2A on the charging circuit. You also have to take into consideration the transformer for the system, at 100VA you should have no worries but you may run into issues with the 40 and 56VA transformer packages.

One battery should be enough for 24 hours, bumping up to 60 hours with two SLAs and 72 hours with three. You could connect a fourth unit to the XR200 panels, but they have been out of production for some time now, so I doubt you would run into that.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 9:43 pm 
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Ok. I have an xr150 with a 100va transformer its says that it can handle 4 18ah batteries for 72 hrs. Would I be able to use any more than that. Or would it be safer to just stick with 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:14 pm 
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The 100VA transformer probably kicks it up from three to four batteries. The manual I have states a maximum of three, but that is for a 56VA transformer, so I'll take your word for it. I have the 2015 revision manual in front of me.

I would stick to no more than four 18AH batteries. Anything more than that will overload the charging circuit. Even at that, I would be observant after installing them to make sure everything is operating properly. Monitor the panel to make sure that the OVC lights does not illuminate while in charging mode.

Are you sure you actually need 18AH batteries? You can get away with 72 hours of standby with as little as two 9AH batteries (or one 18AH) if the max AH required is under 16AH. Four 18AH units are only required if you need more than 67AH, which I doubt you would be able to reach on the XR150 (however I can see that possibility on the XR550).

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:33 am 
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Several years ago, I asked a rep about installing batteries over the maximum rating and what that would do the panel. Unfortunately, I don't remember which manufacturer he was from. But basically what I was told was you wouldn't damage the panel, but a some point it becomes frivolous to install more batteries because they just won't stay charged to capacity. And as the batteries age, they degrade and keeping them charged to capacity becomes more of a loosing battle. Think of trying to keep an old swimming pool with a couple of leaks filled with a garden hose. At some point, the water leaking out will be greater than the water being supplied. When the manufacturer places a maximum or recommended Ah rating, that is usually what they stopped at for the UL listing on the panel to give them the normal standby times. They have to stop at some point! If you're needs are critical and you need longer than 6 days, you probably need a generator!


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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:10 am 
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So would you say that I could get away with 72 hrs of standby with 2x18 Ah batteries. I'm only using 18Ah because it is what I have available through work and I might as well use the bigger battery. If not 72hrs what do you think it would be around.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 11:05 am 
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Quote:
So would you say that I could get away with 72 hrs of standby with 2x18 Ah batteries.
Well how many amp hours does your system require? You can calculate it using the worksheet in Section 6.8 (pages 12 and 13 in the manual) based on the field devices and modules that you have installed.

If you require less than 33Ah at 72 hours then two 18AH batteries will cover it. If you require more, you would need additional batteries. If you calculate that you require less than 16AH, you would only need one 18AH SLA.

Here is the worksheet from the 2016 revision manual: https://buy.dmp.com/dmp/products/docume ... df#page=16 . Or if you can give me a list of every device installed on the system, I can get it calculated for you.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:42 pm 
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thanks. I did look at that page and filled stuff in but feel I may have miss calculated. If you could here is my information from that page.
for the alarm mA if it did not state it I just used the same value from standby. may have went wrong here lol.
1xXR150 control panel 174 mA/ Alarm 217mA
1x1100XH wireless receiver 160mA/ Alarm 160mA
1x7060 thin line keypad 72mA/ Alarm 80mA
1x734 wiegand module 15mA/ Alarm 15mA
HID wiegand reader 200mA/ Alarm 200mA
1x4-zone 714 zone expander 7mA/ Alarm 7mA
(^^Active EOL'S 4x 1.6mA/ Alarm 4x 2mA)
1x16-zone 714 zone expander 20mA/ Alarm 20mA
(^^ Active EOL'S 14x 1.6mA/ Alarm 14x 2mA)
1x 572 indicator light(Hold Up) 20mA/ Alarm 20mA
AUX DEVICES........
MOTIONS DETECTORS HARDWIRED.....
(for the alarm if they did not say it then I put down the same value as the standby. These I will indicate with a ***) if they did include the alarm mA ,then it will be different or not marked. may have went wrong here also.

3xHoneywell dual tech motion detectors 17mA x 3 detectors=51mA/ Alarm 17mAx 3 detectors=51mA***
2xBosch(red Tri-Tech motion detectors 16mA x 2 detectors= 32mA/ Alarm 16mAx 2 detectors=32mA***
1x Bosch Blue Gen motion detector 12mA x 1 detector=12mA/ Alarm 12mA x 1 detector=12mA***
1X DSC motion detector 8mA x 1 detector= 8mA/ Alarm 10mA x 1 detector=10mA
GLASS BREAK.....
1x Honeywell glass break detector 22mA x 1 detector=22mA/Alarm 22mA x 1 detector=22mA

if you have any questions please let me know on the values or the specific device.
the sheet I used for the battery calculations in in part 6.9 of the XR150/XR550 instillation manual. link below. thanks
https://buy.dmp.com/dmp/products/documents/LT-1233.pdf

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:44 pm 
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I also got the default device Standby and Alarm values from section 6.8 just above the 6.9 area in the manual.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Based on the numbers you gave me, you require 52.5Ah at 72 hours. I hadn't anticipated such a large draw from the wireless and wiegand devices (otherwise you would be down near the 20Ah range).

The 4 18aH SLAs suit your needs well.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:29 pm 
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What do you mean by 18 AH SLA's.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 3:11 pm 
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Quote:
What do you mean by 18 AH SLA's.
I'm referring to the four 18 amp-hour batteries that you intend on using. SLA stands for "Sealed Lead Acid," these are the rechargeable battery type used for standby battery applications. You may find them labelled as AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat) as well, but this is just a specific type of SLA.

I'm saying that the calculations work out for 72 hours, you can use four 18aH batteries to suit your needs.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 5:47 pm 
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Ok thanks. That's what i figured just got confused with the SLA part. Lol.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 6:53 pm 
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Also on another note if anyone has experience with DMP panels. I have a keyfob with a prox patch. It is able to disarm the system and access the menu when presented to the thinline keypad. The only thing it can't do is arm the system like it shows in the keypad menu. Does anyone have an idea. Maybe I am missing a programming step. Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Battery Backup
PostPosted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 8:19 pm 
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Is your system programmed for an Area #, Perimeter, or Home/Sleep/Away partition system for arming? For H/S/A the panel will automatically default to "Away" when the prox patch is read for arming, but for area # and perimeter systems I believe you still have to select the areas for arming manually.

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Please send me a PM if you experience any issues or have any concerns. Thank you!
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