Fire Alarms in Buildings (2.0)

Discussion of all things related to fire alarms, including alarm systems, fire alarm collections, sirens, sprinklers, fire drills, evacuations, actual fires, building architecture, other kinds of safety drills like tornado and earthquake drills and such, etc.
User avatar
randomperson
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:59 pm
YouTube Username: randomperson Fire Alarms
Location: Somewhere near Boston
Contact:

El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
FireFinder XLS and Cerberus Pro Modular are 100% identical except for the yellow color scheme. The name change was made in 2016, so if the mall was just upgraded, the new system is a Cerberus Pro Modular. Migration kits are available to install Cerberus Pro Modular equipment into an existing MXL cabinet.

As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017. he/him

YouTube | Twitter | Facebook
Email: everysingletrouble3 -AT- gmail -DOT- com
User avatar
El Chupacabra
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:01 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

randomperson wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Since the pulls in the new part were installed when the MXLV was expanded (around 2016), they're most likely MSI-30BCs. They're two-stage models with bilingual lettering, and they feature the Siemens logo at the top.

The old pull stations are likely still compliant. I'm surprised, however, that such a large building would retain conventional devices despite having undergone two system upgrades in the past two decades. It would seem far more practical to have a fully-intelligent setup in this type of installation. If the pull stations were to be upgraded, my guess is that they would be replaced with HMS-2Ss (which, as you mentioned, would look identical to the MSI-30BCs) as I haven't seen any data sheets mentioning ULC-listed XMS models (or two-stage XMS models).
User avatar
randomperson
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:59 pm
YouTube Username: randomperson Fire Alarms
Location: Somewhere near Boston
Contact:

El Chupacabra wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 3:23 pm
randomperson wrote: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:34 am
El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Oct 11, 2020 12:22 pmThis leads me to believe that the new system is a FireFinder XLSV/Cerberus PRO Modular. The pull stations and speakers in the original part of the mall remain untouched; I wonder if they will be upgraded in the near future.

I'm particularly surprised that the conventional initiating devices were not upgraded in 2016
As for the old pull stations, they have probably had XTRI-S or HTRI-S addressable modules installed. (and before that, TRI-B6's.) If they're mounted at compliant heights and meet code requirements, the pulls don't need to be replaced.

Are the replaced pulls in the new part HMS-series (which looks identical to the MSI-series that works with the MXL, and uses an Allen key to reset) or the all-new XMS series (which uses a T45 key to reset)?
Since the pulls in the new part were installed when the MXLV was expanded (around 2016), they're most likely MSI-30BCs. They're two-stage models with bilingual lettering, and they feature the Siemens logo at the top.

If the pull stations were to be upgraded, my guess is that they would be replaced with HMS-2Ss (which, as you mentioned, would look identical to the MSI-30BCs)
Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017. he/him

YouTube | Twitter | Facebook
Email: everysingletrouble3 -AT- gmail -DOT- com
User avatar
El Chupacabra
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:01 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

randomperson wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:34 pm Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
That's interesting; I wasn't aware of this lack of compatibility between Siemens protocols. If I understand correctly, it would be possible to retain the FirePrint detectors and MSI-30BC pull stations on the Cerberus PRO Modular with the use of an MLC module, but it would be impossible to mix the new OP921 detectors with the old pull stations (or vice-versa).

While this seems unlikely, another possibility is that conventional pull stations (MS-53Cs) were used in the addition to match the setup in the existing part of the mall.

I have seen those Kidde-branded FM950s at South Station. If I recall correctly, they were paired with older Wheelock ET speaker/strobes (with the 7002-style strobe). Quite an interesting setup!
User avatar
randomperson
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:59 pm
YouTube Username: randomperson Fire Alarms
Location: Somewhere near Boston
Contact:

El Chupacabra wrote: Sun Nov 22, 2020 9:21 pm
randomperson wrote: Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:34 pm Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.

As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I've seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
That's interesting; I wasn't aware of this lack of compatibility between Siemens protocols. If I understand correctly, it would be possible to retain the FirePrint detectors and MSI-30BC pull stations on the Cerberus PRO Modular with the use of an MLC module, but it would be impossible to mix the new OP921 detectors with the old pull stations (or vice-versa).
Yes, that is correct.
I have seen those Kidde-branded FM950s at South Station. If I recall correctly, they were paired with older Wheelock ET speaker/strobes (with the 7002-style strobe). Quite an interesting setup!
Most of those old speaker/strobes have been replaced.
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017. he/him

YouTube | Twitter | Facebook
Email: everysingletrouble3 -AT- gmail -DOT- com
User avatar
The 4251-13
Casual Participant
Casual Participant
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:38 pm
YouTube Username: TheCrafter1952 Official
Location: La Crosse County, WI
Contact:

A hospital near me has a Johnson Controls system from what I would say is around 1990. There are Simplex / Johnson Controls mechanical chimes on the older strobe plates (Upwards configuration), except near the podiatry area, where there is one early 2000s strobe plate (Also in the upwards configuration). Further back in the building near OT, there are ceiling mounts of what to appear to be CH90s or some pyrotronics variant (like what Wheelove Fire Alarms has). I could identify it as a Johnson Controls system because the pull stations were Johnson Controls BG-12LXs* and the annunciator at the clinic entrance is also branded Johnson Controls.

*NOTE: There is one 20(or 40)99 series pull with a hammer and glass plate.

Also, there is a newer urgent care building nearby (same provider) that has a brand-spanking-new Johnson Controls system. CH70s and the Johnson Controls BG-12LXs are the main theme. There are Johnson Controls branded smokes in the building as well. I did see some kind of stopper station behind a desk. It was white, and said something like "LOCKDOWN" I think. No confirmation.

DISCLAIMER: I will not disclose locations due to concerns about privacy. Also, I do not know about all the alarms because I have not been through the whole building (and probably will never).
-TC1952
My avatar says "Crafter" in the kana system, not "Fire."
"HAVE FUN STORMING THE CASTLE!" - Billy Crystal
Visit my YouTube (If it ever has content...)
I am on GeoFS - Look for my callsign: N1952TC
User avatar
El Chupacabra
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 326
Joined: Sun Jan 08, 2012 8:01 pm
Location: Ottawa, ON

This evening, I visited my local Walmart for the first time in one year and noticed that its system has been fully upgraded. The store opened in late 2006 and originally had an EST QuickStart (QS4) with SIGA-270 pull stations and Genesis horn/strobes with "FIRE" lettering (G1RF-HDVMs). The new panel is a Mircom FX-2000; pull stations are MS-401APs and signals are FHS-400RR LED horn/strobes (first time seeing these in person). The FHS-400RRs are mounted in groups of four around columns, in the same manner as the previous system's Genesis horn/strobes were installed.

I also visited a new Farm Boy grocery store that opened one month ago in the same outdoor mall as the aforementioned Walmart. The panel at this store is an EST iO1000 and the pull stations are SIGC-270Bs. I was quite surprised to see, however, that the signals are a mix of wall-mount and ceiling-mount xenon Genesis horn/strobes (G1-HDVMs and GC-HDVMs). Edwards discontinued these signals earlier this year, so I would have expected this system to feature LED Genesis devices. This is likely one of the very last new installations in my area to feature xenon Genesis horn/strobes.
Firealarmfan10
Registered User
Registered User
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2021 5:12 pm

Hey in This YouTube video, there is a security alarm going off but it sounds like Gent sounder Fire alarms And Da Abacus 8 System

I did saw the brand name of security box in the middle of video in pictures. But I can’t find it anywhere. Is it rare?

https://youtu.be/IerLfwXcuO8
wiley209
Dedicated Participant
Dedicated Participant
Posts: 1136
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 7:04 pm

The Lenscrafters my eye doctor works at had a fire alarm system put in some time last year! Before that there wasn't any "regular" fire alarm system in place; the whole store was protected by fire sprinklers, and so I'd assume there may have been a sprinkler bell or to somewhere. But I went there this morning for an annual eye doctor checkup and among entering I noticed a Fire-Lite BG-12 pull station at the entrance vestibule! Then I saw ceiling-mount System Sensor L-series horn/strobes throughout the sales floor and one in the doctor waiting area. The exam rooms don't have any alarm signals, but that's fine, since having one of those horn/strobes right nearby in the waiting area should be loud enough. I don't recall seeing the pull stations blinking, so it's likely they added onto an existing conventional fire alarm system, as this Lenscrafters IS part of a strip mall, and the Price-Rite grocery store that used to be there had Fire-Lite BG-12 pulls and ceiling-mount SpectrAlert Classic horn/strobes.
Yeah, despite being a rather mundane type of setup (the L-series is becoming quite common, just as I predicted a few years back) I thought it was worth mentioning, with a place that had no fire alarm system getting one put in.
User avatar
randomperson
Serious Participant
Serious Participant
Posts: 551
Joined: Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:59 pm
YouTube Username: randomperson Fire Alarms
Location: Somewhere near Boston
Contact:

To round out my town's schools... here's Field Elementary.
Panel: Simplex 4100ES, located by the boiler room. There's an annunciator at the main entrance.
Pull stations: 4099-9003's
Detectors: TrueAlarms, and some heat detectors as appropriate
Signals: TrueAlert speaker/strobes. The cafeteria kitchen and outside have Wheelock ET70WP speaker/strobes.
Posting fire alarm systems from eastern Massachusetts (and a few other places) since 2017. he/him

YouTube | Twitter | Facebook
Email: everysingletrouble3 -AT- gmail -DOT- com
User avatar
The 4251-13
Casual Participant
Casual Participant
Posts: 36
Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 4:38 pm
YouTube Username: TheCrafter1952 Official
Location: La Crosse County, WI
Contact:

Another one for ya at a local university art building.
Panel: Simplex 4100ES. Two 4010ES cabinets, one with a board, the other with voice evacuation and NAC cards.
IDs: Simplex 4099s (Dual Action). I forgot the smokes, though.
NAs: Wheelock ET70-24MCW(H)-FRs (Arial Lettering, as opposed to Engravers Gothic), ET70-24MCC(H)-FWs, 2x Simplex addressable speaker strobes (ceiling) in the now-interior front staircase.
One famous one as a bonus.
MALL OF AMERICA
Panel: Most likely a high-end Simplex panel now.
IDs: No (known) pulls, but several older Simplex SD s.
NAs: Wheelock ET-9070-WS-24-VFW s, WS1T-24-VFR s, and some of the aforementioned Simplex speaker strobes.
-TC1952
My avatar says "Crafter" in the kana system, not "Fire."
"HAVE FUN STORMING THE CASTLE!" - Billy Crystal
Visit my YouTube (If it ever has content...)
I am on GeoFS - Look for my callsign: N1952TC
Post Reply