Are pull stations basically leftovers from a time when smokes/heats were not common?

[quote=randomperson post_id=85088 time=1569166548 user_id=3878] [quote=RSSAlarms post_id=85081 time=1569090466 user_id=4672] The panel you’re specifying, I highly doubt is an AM-2020 because it’s been discontinued for at least a decade or two and the protocol is outdated, like BGX-101l and Windows XP outdated.

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The AM2020 was discontinued in 2000 when the NFS-3030 came out. The NFS-3030 was then discontinued in 2007 when the NFS2-3030 came out.

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Okay, never knew that. My bad, getting the model numbers a bit mixed up, and I hardly work with these systems. I think then they probably put in the NFS2-3030. They all pretty much look the same :lol:

[quote=DownsLife+Safety post_id=85036 time=1568435607 user_id=4181]

NFPA 72 (2019) seems to address this too in 17.15.9.4:

But it seems more AHJs are approving the notion to remove pull stations. https://www.ecmag.com/section/miscellaneous/compliance-requires-proper-placement This article however suggests that previous versions of NFPA required at least one pull station in an entire building.

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NFPA 72 doesn’t decide WHEN a device is required, only how it’s supposed to be installed.

The NFPA 101/IBC dictates if pull stations are required (unless a local codes or amendments override them which is often the case in large cities), and normally in fully sprinkled buildings you only need one pull station at the FACP for testing purposes. That specific pull station is for if the water flows are disabled while being tested, and there’s a fire reported in, the technician or someone at the panel still has a way to activate the fire alarm system.

For example, in the IBC chapter 9 where it tells when fire alarms are required, you’ll see this little clause under most occupancy types:

Exception: Manual fire alarm boxes are not required
where the building is equipped throughout with an
automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with
Section 903.3.1.1 and the occupant notification appliances will activate throughout the notification zones
upon sprinkler waterflow.

As for the OP, pull stations are largely a nuisance and with today’s climate can be a hazard in a lot of places. The sprinkler system, heats, and smokes will all do their job and activate a fire alarm system quicker and more accurately than someone running out of a burning building. On the other hand, the threat of someone activating a fire alarm to funnel everyone out onto the lawn can be bad news. Or even less nefarious, just emptying a 10 story building by making everyone run down the stairwells as a prank will cause more than a few injuries. If you trust the pull station to activate the fire alarm system, you can trust the other fire alarm devices to do the same. :wink:

I think my city is one that still requires pull stations throughout buildings in fully sprinklered buildings or at least recommends them. There are new stores that opened up in 2017 and 2018 that have pull stations by each exit in my area.

I am at a Nissan car dealership right now that has Gentex commander horn/strobes and BG-12 pull stations. The pull stations are necessary because the building has no sprinkler system and only one visible smoke detector near the restrooms.

That reminds me of the Toyota dealer that my mother got her car at but instead of Gentex Commander 3’s, they are Edwards Genesis horn/strobes with pulls since the building has no sprinkler system and I don’t think I can see a smoke anywhere around.

[quote=chris+s post_id=85134 time=1569893160 user_id=3064]

For example, in the IBC chapter 9 where it tells when fire alarms are required, you’ll see this little clause under most occupancy types:

Exception: Manual fire alarm boxes are not required
where the building is equipped throughout with an
automatic sprinkler system installed in accordance with
Section 903.3.1.1 and the occupant notification appliances will activate throughout the notification zones
upon sprinkler waterflow.

[/quote]

It’s funny, the codes here in Canada are completely different. If an automatic sprinkler is installed in a building, you don’t need smokes or heats, but still need pull stations. Many commercial plazas I do only have pulls and notification appliances, as its way cheaper for them to install sprinklers as opposed to detectors. I’ve seen 2 exceptions, both in residential housing though, where fire alarm systems aren’t required. & Both of those systems just have a single bell/horn installed right at the panel, but they are connected to monitoring panels.

We also don’t get false alarms here as much due to someone pulling the alarm. Most false alarms happen from water damage (water in a heat or smoke detector), or a sprinkler system tripping (had one trip because the air compressor broke down, or freezing pipes).

Makes sense that if you have an automatic sprinkler you still need pull stations since even if the sprinkler does put out the fire, the smoke probably still would be dangerous.

[quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=85179 time=1570993681 user_id=18]

Makes sense that if you have an automatic sprinkler you still need pull stations since even if the sprinkler does put out the fire, the smoke probably still would be dangerous.

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The sprinkler being activated would set the alarm off, but smoke could still build up way before any sprinklers would go off.

That is why it still would be dangerous and you would need a manual pull.

I would never trust a fully automatic fire alarm system. The same way I would never trust self driving cars. If pull stations were to become obsolete, what would we do in the event that the automatic detectors malfunctioned and failed to activate? We wouldn’t have any other means of notification unless one wanted to run all the way to the panel to press the drill button. Now I’m not saying that we shouldn’t try automation with pull stations, but no pull stations is a bad idea.