I can’t imagine really old signals causing alarm troubles. And from what I heard, 4051s are MUCH louder than TrueAlerts. (My 4051s are the loudest alarms in my collection currently, and I remember at the school I attended for kindergarten they were VERY loud.) In fact, I think 4051s are even louder than 4050s!
I’m still pretty sure they were upgrading the alarms due to either the old horns breaking down (this happened to one of the 4051s at the school I mentioned, and they replaced it with a Wheelock NS), or it’s because the old signals are no longer ADA-compliant (I have seen a few places replace those same alarms with TrueAlerts because of that reason.)
I think this is only the 100th time this has been explained so lets try again…
If the device is existing, in an existing construction situation the device is code compliant. You are under no mandate to upgrade a device simply because it does not meet today’s codes or standards. The only time that really becomes the issue is during renovation of that area or if the system is changed out. Other than that the only reason to change a device is because it failed during a test.
Here’s a new one: the McDonald’s restaurant near Massasoit College is having a new fire alarm system installed. Previously, they had none. But when I went there today, I saw a SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobe in the cooking area, and a couple of addressable Fire-Lite/Notifier smoke detectors with those orange plastic covers over them, as well as some other holes in the ceiling where new detectors will go. I imagine they will also install more horn/strobes and pull stations as well (I don’t think the system is even active yet!) Judging by the smoke detectors and signals used, it is probably going to be a Fire-Lite system, as I often see those at restaurants and fast-food places.
Wiley, McDonalds usually in MA usually use FCI control products. It all depends on the contractor. Secondly, why would you eat at McDonalds?
Well, the McDonald’s near my house I think had an FCI system when it was built in the 1980s, but now it has a Fire-Lite addressable system. But you could be right. This McDonald’s new alarm system COULD be a Gamewell-FCI system.
Second, I don’t eat at McDonald’s THAT often; usually two to three times a month. (I prefer the “real” restaurant fries and stuff like that.) But let’s not discuss that here
I am right… I have only worked on about 20 of their panels all of which were FCI.
McDonalds fries are like the least of your problems in that place. I will give them this one of the cleanest fast food places I have ever been inside the kitchen of.
An update to the Amtrak station in Dearborn, MI; its National Time bell, I found out, is a model 806, which is also the same kind of class change bell used in and near Madonna University’s Kresge Hall.
I also have a couple of updates to the Stevenson system. These are not necessary fire alarm related, but in the LMC, they have one or two gray piezos used for the electronic scanners near the front. Also, I happened to notice in the auditorium (and I’m not making this up), that there is a blue-colored piezo on one of the rows of seats! :shock: Does anybody know what this could be used for?
Here are some pictures of the Gilmore school, which I mentioned had a fire alarm upgrade this past summer (when it was being converted from a junior high school to a pre-K school). Here is the only pic I have of their old system:
The alarm signals were Simplex 2901-9806 horns on 2903 strobe plates. Since the school was built in 1965, these are obviously not the original signals, and are probably replacing Vibratone horns or something. Behind that grille is a 6-inch Stromberg bell, and these were obviously the original class-change bells. Though not pictured, the school also had some older Simplex smoke detectors (I recall seeing a “wiffle-ball” of some kind and a 4259-36 detector), as well as metal Chemtronics 500 heat sensors and Gamewell Century pulls, both from the school’s original system. I think they used to have a Gamewell FlexAlarm system, then they upgraded to a Simplex 2001 or something.
But here is what they have now…
The school’s current (and third) fire alarm panel is a Notifier ONYX NFS-3030 voice-evacuation system.
The signals are all System Sensor SpectrAlert Advance speaker/strobes. They were mostly put where the old alarms were located and in other areas where no signals previous were (including in the classrooms!)
These are the smoke detectors. I think they’re Notifier FSP-851s, but I am not sure.
The pull stations are Notifier NBG-12LXs. Unlike other school fire alarm upgrades that have been recently going on, they did NOT install Stopper covers over these, most likely due to it being in a pre-K school where the probability of falsely-pulled fire alarms is REALLY low. (The other schools that were/will be upgraded are middle schools, so it makes sense for them to get Stopper covers.)
They still have this Simplex 2350 master time panel that controls the clocks throughout the school. I suspect this was installed back in the 1980s when the school’s second fire alarm system was installed. It also used to control the bells, but the school no longer uses the bell system since it is a pre-K school (instead they just ring a little hand bell over the intercom for the end-of-day signaling).
Despite that, the old school bells are still intact, and I was told they now use those bells for emergencies only (such as a lockdown or tornado/severe weather alarm or something.) Also, even though you can’t really tell by this picture, behind that grille is a 6-inch Edwards Adapt-a-bel! I am guessing it replaced a malfunctioning Stromberg bell. The metal plate next to it is also covering up where the previous alarms were.
Last week, I mentioned that the McDonald’s restaurant near my old college was having a new fire alarm system installed, as I could see a SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobe in the kitchen area and a couple of Fire-Lite/System Sensor smoke detectors with orange covers on them. I went back there for lunch yesterday and when I entered, I noticed there was one of those red Fire-Lite remote annunciators located at one of the entrances. Sure enough, it said “SYSTEM NORMAL,” which meant the fire alarm system was now active! They now installed two more SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobes in the dining area, and even one in the mens’ restroom! They were all set to 15 candelas. Underneath each horn/strobe in the dining area, there was a Fire-Lite BG-12LX pull station, which means that this system is addressable. The two smoke detectors I mentioned are no longer covered and are now active. They appear to be Fire-Lite SD-355s. They did not get around to installing the detectors in the dining area yet (they still have the two holes and backboxes in the ceiling where they will be going.) I didn’t see the panel, but I am very sure it is a Fire-Lite MS-9200 or something similar.
I have an amazing update to share with all of you for the Stevenson system. While doing a lab experiment for Principles of Chemistry outside today, I happened to run across a weatherproof Wheelock MT4 horn/strobe outside the fieldhouse! It now seems that the district doesn’t totally rely on National Time for everything, even though the company does make weatherproof versions of their products.
Minor update: I ate there Friday and it turns out they replaced that signal with a red E90, so everything is now mounted as it should be. 
One surprising update has just led to yet another discovery at Stevenson!
On Wednesday, I looked through one of the grilles for a class change bell, and was amazed to see a gray Wheelock 6" model inside! This can be found in a hallway outside the gym, near the mechanical rooms. Also, what may have been a second version of this bell appears inside a very strange location protective cover; it looks to be very old, and I remember it having a metal Wheelock plate on the bottom. It was a grayish cover, and looks identical to a PA speaker. Does anybody know what I am talking about?
At the Campanelli Stadium in Brockton, MA, there was a Chemtronics 600-series heat sensor near one of the elevators (obviously used for elevator recall), but a couple of years ago the detector was damaged and just hanging from its wires! It was like that last year, but it has finally been fixed: they replaced it with a System Sensor 5601 heat detector.
Another update for Livonia’s Kmart; next to one of the fire doors in the front, is a Notifier 6" bell, the same exact one I saw at De La Salle in Warren! I believe the model number is C-8, but it was a little hard to see the bell, so I am not sure.
I was at Massasoit Community College, probably for the last time in a long time. They made some more fire alarm updates since I was last there to a couple of the buildings. Let me start with the Fine Arts building…
The last two Simplex 4051+4050-80 horn/lights in that building are now gone. This means that there are now no Simplex signals left in this building. The new alarms are NOT VA4 horn/strobes like the others in the building are, though…
They’re SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobes! Looks like the campus is officially through with Space Age Electronics now. This one is set to 15 candelas. At least they still have SOME variety in the signals, instead of it just being all VA4 horn/strobes like I thought it eventually would be.
The same alarm with the old Simplex 4251-20 pull and Stopper II underneath. The existing Simplex pull stations are still intact. I was told they also got a new fire alarm panel! I’m pretty sure the new fire alarm panel is a Fire-Lite or Notifier model. HOWEVER, the old Simplex annunciator is still intact in the main entranceway! That actually surprised me a bit.
They also installed Stopper II covers over several pull stations that didn’t have them. Unlike the existing Stopper II covers that were already installed over other pulls, THESE actually have sounders in them!
They are also re-doing the Administration building’s computer tech. room. I noticed above each of the two doors was a new alarm signal! I think they go to a new fire suppression system or something, but the existing Federal Vibratone 450D horn/strobe is still there, but that might be removed soon. These two new alarms have “FIRE” lettering as well, so that adds more to the confusion, especially considering the VA4 horn/strobe nearby on the main fire alarm system is right next to one of the doors!
One of these new signals is another SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobe.
The other is some weird Potter horn/strobe I’ve never seen before.
The existing Simplex 4020 fire alarm panel is still intact. Nothing else has been changed with the main fire alarm system.
Looks like they got a new control access door for the 4020! I don’t remember those stickers being there before…
This is what 4020s are supposed to look like when that door thingy is shut. Previously it didn’t have one.
That is actually a redesign of the Select-A-Horn/Strobe series.
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4342
You can find more information about them here (even though those links have been posted in that topic):
http://www.pottersignal.com/news_fire_selectastrobehorn.aspx
Here is where you can find the sounds they are capable of producing (scroll down):
http://www.pottersignal.com/notification/horns_strobes.php
I actually made made a screencast demonstrating all these sounds on posted it on YouTube myself:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WA_MRv-COzk#t=30s
If you listened to most of those sounds, they sound very similar to the Gentex Commander series Horns and Horn/Strobes.
I apologize for bumping this topic, but for the Best Buy in Novi, there are SpectrAlert classic horn/strobes in a theater section, and the panel is a Simplex 4005 model, located at the main entrance.
For the 5 Mile/Merriman Dollar Tree, there are two “Smoke” fire apparatus (ceiling-mounted) in a part of the store, and a hallway leading to the restrooms has a Mircom Select-A-Horn/strobe (wall-mount) inside.
Can you believe it? Right after I leave Massasoit College, they go and start doing overhauls to some of the fire alarm systems! (And not just replacing signals and smoke detectors, either!) First off, the Science Building’s getting a new fire alarm panel…
It’s not finished yet (the Faraday FireWatch II panel is still active next to it) but it looks like this panel will be replacing that older Faraday FireWatch II panel from the early 1990s. It appears to be a Notifier ONYX NFS-640 panel, rebranded by Johnson Controls.
Inside the panel (the door was unlocked and it hasn’t been fully assembled or turned on yet). Note that all the datasheets inside them have Notifier logos instead of JC (from what I recall, the college now uses Notifier products instead of Faraday and Fire-Lite.)
A Notifier remote alarm indicator, rebranded by JC. The SAE VA4 horn/strobes, System Sensor i3 smoke detectors and Faraday F1G Chevron pul’s are still intact. I imagine the initiating devices might be replaced with addressable ones (the building’s current system is only two zones, and the entire main floor is covered by only one of the zones!)
Also, there are now NO Simplex fire alarm systems left on the campus. The reason?
The Administration building got a new Notifier system! Judging by the annunciator, it may be another NFS-640 system (replacing the Simplex 4020 panel they installed roughly 10 years ago). This was installed right onto where the old Simplex annunciator originally was (note the HUGE trim plate the Notifier annunciator’s mounted on!)
Despite switching to a Notifier system, they still have the existing Simplex 4251-20 pulls intact! I thought they would’ve replaced them with NBG-12s or something. The SAE VA4 horn/strobes are still intact, of course.
Even that old Simplex 4051 horn on the Faraday 2701-K strobe plate is still there! Not sure if it’ll be around for much longer though, as if I recall, Simplex signals do not work very well on Notifier panels.
However, all the System Sensor i3 smoke detectors on the ground floor were replaced with these newer Notifier 2251 smoke detectors.
They’re also installing a new fire suppression system for the computer tech. room. Here’s the new fire suppression panel, but it’s not turned on yet. The previous Ansul panel is still active and in use for now. The new fire suppression system is an Amerex system, and also note the Potter bell and Notifier output modules near it.
Note the new RSG T-bar pull rebranded by Potter and the stop switch underneath it with “DO NOT USE” sticky notes on them. That means they have not been activated yet. The old Ansul MS-2 suppression release pull is still intact and active for now.
Look at that! There’s a new Notifier 2251 smoke detector installed next to where the old i3 probably was, and in the background you can see an old Simplex photoelectric detector of some sort for the Ansul fire suppression system, and next to it is a System Sensor i3 presumably for the new fire suppression system. (I’m pretty sure the 2251s here are supposed to be detectors for the new Notifier system.)
Faraday U-HN-MCS horn/strobe that is part of the main fire alarm system, and near that is another newer Potter Select-a-Horn/strobe, which is obviously for the new fire suppression system.
System Sensor/Notifier detector base, obviously this is for a new system smoke detector.
Another i3 detector for the suppression system that has yet to be activated, next to one of the old Simplex “wiffle-ball” smokes.
Wow, TWO fire alarm updates to my hometown in one week?
This time, though, it’s the YMCA Youth Branch. It is a VERY old building that has since been renovated and expanded a few times. The building has a Simplex fire alarm system that is obviously not the original to the building. The panel was installed in the 1980s during when the building had its current swimming pool room added, and was originally a Simplex 2001 (the large black kind in the black glass-door cabinet). There is also a Silent Knight power supply panel above it (obviously added later).
However, as of today, the Simplex 2001 is currently being gutted and replaced with a Simplex 4006 panel as I type this (the 4006 is being retrofitted right into the 2001 cabinet). The Silent Knight power supply will remain intact, as well as an alarm signal tied into it (a Simplex 2901-9806 horn) and a trouble bell (a 6-inch Edwards Adapt-a-bel).
The rest of the system will not be changed, so far. Signals are a mix of 2901-9806 and 2901-9833 horns (some on 2903 visual plates). The original portion of the building has older Gamewell Century pulls, presumably left over from a 1960s renovation/upgrade, but the pool area has newer Simplex pulls (there’s a 2099-9756 dual-action T-bar located right next to an exit). The building also has 1990s-style Simplex heat detectors throughout the building (they look sort of like TrueAlarm heat sensors).