Siemens/CP SLC protocols are not backward-compatible. If the detectors were replaced, so were the addressable pulls.
As for the old pulls, they were probably retrofitted with addressable modules. I’ve seen these setups several times, one of these systems (South Station in Boston) even has Electro-Vox pulls! (rebranded by Kidde.)
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That’s interesting; I wasn’t aware of this lack of compatibility between Siemens protocols. If I understand correctly, it would be possible to retain the FirePrint detectors and MSI-30BC pull stations on the Cerberus PRO Modular with the use of an MLC module, but it would be impossible to mix the new OP921 detectors with the old pull stations (or vice-versa).
A hospital near me has a Johnson Controls system from what I would say is around 1990. There are Simplex / Johnson Controls mechanical chimes on the older strobe plates (Upwards configuration), except near the podiatry area, where there is one early 2000s strobe plate (Also in the upwards configuration). Further back in the building near OT, there are ceiling mounts of what to appear to be CH90s or some pyrotronics variant (like what Wheelove Fire Alarms has). I could identify it as a Johnson Controls system because the pull stations were Johnson Controls BG-12LXs* and the annunciator at the clinic entrance is also branded Johnson Controls.
*NOTE: There is one 20(or 40)99 series pull with a hammer and glass plate.
Also, there is a newer urgent care building nearby (same provider) that has a brand-spanking-new Johnson Controls system. CH70s and the Johnson Controls BG-12LXs are the main theme. There are Johnson Controls branded smokes in the building as well. I did see some kind of stopper station behind a desk. It was white, and said something like “LOCKDOWN” I think. No confirmation.
DISCLAIMER: I will not disclose locations due to concerns about privacy. Also, I do not know about all the alarms because I have not been through the whole building (and probably will never).
This evening, I visited my local Walmart for the first time in one year and noticed that its system has been fully upgraded. The store opened in late 2006 and originally had an EST QuickStart (QS4) with SIGA-270 pull stations and Genesis horn/strobes with “FIRE” lettering (G1RF-HDVMs). The new panel is a Mircom FX-2000; pull stations are MS-401APs and signals are FHS-400RR LED horn/strobes (first time seeing these in person). The FHS-400RRs are mounted in groups of four around columns, in the same manner as the previous system’s Genesis horn/strobes were installed.
I also visited a new Farm Boy grocery store that opened one month ago in the same outdoor mall as the aforementioned Walmart. The panel at this store is an EST iO1000 and the pull stations are SIGC-270Bs. I was quite surprised to see, however, that the signals are a mix of wall-mount and ceiling-mount xenon Genesis horn/strobes (G1-HDVMs and GC-HDVMs). Edwards discontinued these signals earlier this year, so I would have expected this system to feature LED Genesis devices. This is likely one of the very last new installations in my area to feature xenon Genesis horn/strobes.
The Lenscrafters my eye doctor works at had a fire alarm system put in some time last year! Before that there wasn’t any “regular” fire alarm system in place; the whole store was protected by fire sprinklers, and so I’d assume there may have been a sprinkler bell or to somewhere. But I went there this morning for an annual eye doctor checkup and among entering I noticed a Fire-Lite BG-12 pull station at the entrance vestibule! Then I saw ceiling-mount System Sensor L-series horn/strobes throughout the sales floor and one in the doctor waiting area. The exam rooms don’t have any alarm signals, but that’s fine, since having one of those horn/strobes right nearby in the waiting area should be loud enough. I don’t recall seeing the pull stations blinking, so it’s likely they added onto an existing conventional fire alarm system, as this Lenscrafters IS part of a strip mall, and the Price-Rite grocery store that used to be there had Fire-Lite BG-12 pulls and ceiling-mount SpectrAlert Classic horn/strobes.
Yeah, despite being a rather mundane type of setup (the L-series is becoming quite common, just as I predicted a few years back) I thought it was worth mentioning, with a place that had no fire alarm system getting one put in.
To round out my town’s schools… here’s Field Elementary. Panel: Simplex 4100ES, located by the boiler room. There’s an annunciator at the main entrance. Pull stations: 4099-9003’s Detectors: TrueAlarms, and some heat detectors as appropriate Signals: TrueAlert speaker/strobes. The cafeteria kitchen and outside have Wheelock ET70WP speaker/strobes.
Another one for ya at a local university art building.
Panel: Simplex 4100ES. Two 4010ES cabinets, one with a board, the other with voice evacuation and NAC cards.
IDs: Simplex 4099s (Dual Action). I forgot the smokes, though.
NAs: Wheelock ET70-24MCW(H)-FRs (Arial Lettering, as opposed to Engravers Gothic), ET70-24MCC(H)-FWs, 2x Simplex addressable speaker strobes (ceiling) in the now-interior front staircase.
One famous one as a bonus.
MALL OF AMERICA
Panel: Most likely a high-end Simplex panel now.
IDs: No (known) pulls, but several older Simplex SD s.
NAs: Wheelock ET-9070-WS-24-VFW s, WS1T-24-VFR s, and some of the aforementioned Simplex speaker strobes.
Doing building manager training in a small town for work, I came across an old vacant high school during my break. One thing that has always interested me about schools, especially in Ontario, is that I know the majority of them have had some old Edwards system in it. I walked around the school, noticed it had for sale signs, but couldn’t see any indication of old alarms.
Upon further research, This school in particular, was built in 1924, and added on about 3 or 4 times, the final and big addition added in 1970. I also found it closed in 2019, and with that I found some reunion photos of the final celebration of the old schools life, as well as the answers to my burning questions. I couldn’t believe it when I saw the school still bears the old Edwards 360A red Adaptahorns! So that tells me there might be a very old Edwards panel still in play in the school. My goal has been trying to preserve systems like this, as I now know there are some schools that still bear these old systems, and are waiting for a replacement school.
For anyone interested, my old high school is still active to this day, & the new building hasn’t even been built yet. It still has the old 6500, and #24 single stroke bells. I’ve been keeping a very close eye on the school, in case the system decides to crap out before the new school is ever built at this point, or they decide to just renovate the school instead. Although I doubt it will crap out, those 6500 are built to last. We just took one out of service that was installed when the apartment building was built in 1973. 48 years of service, and we replaced it only because the condo company wanted a new panel.
What a cool find! I’m always ecstatic to come across systems like these. Older institutional buildings, such as schools, university halls and hospitals, always seem to feature some of the most interesting systems. I regularly walk by a few mid-century school buildings near my house and wonder what kind of goodies could be hiding inside.
I saw a similar system a little over a year ago at Carleton University. The building in question was completed in 1958. The 12VAC Edwards 360 horns (pictured below) are likely original to the building. The panel appears to be a 6500, judging by the annunciator (also pictured below), while the pull stations are older 270-SPOs. As the 270-SPOs are mounted on large red trim plates, I suspect that the building originally featured coded pull stations. I’m amazed that these 60 year-old horns remain in service; I’d love to hear them in action.
Setups from that era are certainly becoming a rare sight. I’m happy to hear that you’re trying to preserve these older systems.
I’ve actually got a gray 24VDC version of that horn, along with a 12VAC non-flush-mount version of the former.
Yeah I always like it whenever anyone’s able to save old devices from being trashed, we’re actually helping to preserve fire protection history by doing that.
The stairs have Wheelock ET70WP speaker/strobes and RSSWP strobes.
Main building Panel: Simplex 4100ES, located in a closet off the lobby. There’s also a 4603-9101 annunciator in the lobby. Pull stations: 4099-9006’s Detectors: TrueAlarms Signals: TrueAlert speaker/strobes
I’m going to talk about my dad’s school Fire Alarm system. (Unfortunately i don’t have any pictures of the system)
My dad’s school was built in 1996-97 and the panel was a Simplex 4020 fire alarm system. The alarms were Simplex 4903-9221s and 4904-9138s. The pull stations were Simplex 2099-9754s. Then unfortunately they replaced the System in 2012 with a Silent Knight 5820XL with spectralert advances in red. Most of the pull stations spots were removed (the only one remaining is in the office and the pull station there is a Silent Knight SK-Pull-DA). The smokes were a mix between Silent Knight SK-Photos and System Sensor i3s. Unfortunately I didn’t know the replacement or even the original system until a few months ago when I found a fire alarm drawing form 1996 that gave me information on the old system. I’m going to keep it undisclosed because it shows the school name. You can probably find it if you look hard enough. If you do know the school please keep it to your self or me. Also there was a Silent Knight 5207 in the art building of the school. It had Notifier BNG1s, a BG8, and PS-SAs. Don’t know what the N/As were. I found that one out on a old inspection sheet. The art building system didn’t have a replacement system since they decided to use the main 5820XL system for both the main school and Art building.
I’d say the new Silent Knight system isn’t that bad, especially as they’re somewhat rare to find in public compared to Simplex, Notifier, & Fire-Lite systems.
Don’t know why they’d remove most of the pull stations honestly; you’d think they’d be able to replace all of them with Silent Knight stations easily.
You could blur out or even completely remove the name from the diagram if you don’t want anyone to know what school it is but you still want to show it.
I personally think they picked a good panel but I absolutely despise advances replacing rare stuff. I actually wouldn’t mind less if they went with advance speaker strobes but they took the generic route. I would rather them kept the 9221s and just replace the smoke detectors and pulls. I can probably understand why they replace the system since the old system had some troubles along with the strobes being out of sync since they use free run horn strobes. I will post the old FA drawings but I will censor out names.
Hmm, unique message the system has in the video, Integrity code 3 with shorter pauses between rounds I hear as well.
I’m not sure honestly if Siemens has ever rebranded Edwards/EST devices.
Interesting how the whole system has white alarms. I can’t tell for certain but the remote strobe & speaker/strobes look like they have “ALERT” lettering rather than “FIRE” lettering. (despite also having clear lenses) Also odd how there’s both speaker/strobes & horn/strobes. (unless they’re two different systems, which might be the case if the smoke detector doesn’t say “SIEMENS” on it; the original manufacturer is Edwards/EST)
Landis & Gyr rebranded EST systems in the past (no idea why, as Landis & Gyr has always owned Cerberus). These were usually installed along with building management systems as part of the same contract.
Landis & Gyr was acquired by Siemens in 1998. Over the next few years, Siemens phased out Landis & Gyr and Cerberus Pyrotronics branding.
The divisions of Landis & Gyr other than building technologies were since spun out.
