In regards to the documents you sent me
In the second file the diagram has wires in the solder pads. Should I put those wires in because I removed all wires from that jumble it’s just a bare board now. Could this be the issue
No. Those are circuit board conductors that are already on the board. Some of the solder pads could not be right next to the PC board sockets. There are limitations on where some solder pads could be located because there are printed conductors on both sides of the board. All of the solder pads show “wires” to the socket pins. Most are just very short because the solder pad is right next to the PC board connector.
I was making a assumption that the question was about things like the “wire” between J2 pin A and solder pad 108. Those are made on the board at manufacturing and just show which solder pads connect to which PC board pins.
The other wires labeled JW1 through JW12are physical wires that are soldered to the board when it is made. Those are cut when some special purpose cards are in the system. These special purpose cards go into J2. Many of the other JW wires separate the top and bottom row of circuit board sockets. This allowed the top row to be a fire alarm system and the bottom row to be a security system. For standard fire alarm all those physical wire jumpers should be on the board. I suspect they are, but only you can see the board to check on that.
Ok so let’s get back to the issue
No polarity change so putting in k2 would solve the issue?
If not then what is my next step because on my Nac card the jumpers are in
We are getting to the point where component level troubleshooting may be necessary.
There has to be a DPDT relay in the K2 socket. All of the DC power for the system goes through K2. I know that you substituted a 120 VAC coil unit which will not activate because the motherboard is set up for a 24 VDC relay coil, so the system is running on the battery charger. It should still function as long as there are not many cards plugged in and no other loads on the panel. The battery charger can supply only a limited amount of current. It has to be that way because it is designed to charge sealed batteries. Those can only take so much charging current.
I am going to back up and verify some things on my end. I will get back to you as soon as I can. This weekend is busy for me. I am an officer in the local MTB club and will be putting our display tent up at the 12-hour race on Saturday. So it may be Sunday or Monday before I can get back on this.
One thing about relay substitutions. Putting an AC coil relay in place of a DC coil relay can cause circuit failures. The typical AC relay has a much lower coil resistance than a DC relay. In an AC circuit the inductance of the coil determines its impedance and the amount of current it draws. In a DC relay coil the wire itself develops the resistance and determines how much current it will draw.
The relay that goes in this board has a coil resistance of around 650 ohms. An AC coil relay can have a DC resistance of 100 ohms or less. That causes it to draw much more current from the circuit that controls the relay. In the 2001-8023 there is one little transistor that controls the relay (Q1 on the motherboard). It could easily be overloaded by an incorrect relay. In equipment I have repaired over the years I have seen these little transistors just vaporize leaving only the 3 wires attached to the board. That does make troubleshooting easy though.
I dug around in some old stuff and found enough old boards to kluge together the basics of a 2001-8021 panel. This is a single row system with 8 card slots. It was the precursor to the panel you have and is basically the top row of your panel. It has a smaller power supply and does not use a relay for the battery changeover. That will not have an effect on how the plug in cards behave. I wanted to be sure that the measurements I was stating you should get by looking at diagrams were correct. I have confirmed that they are correct.
You have a control module that seems to be working with D25 installed and intact. You have a NAC module with both jumpers that would be cut for custom operations installed and intact. You have IDC modules that go into alarm and activate the control module. This system SHOULD be working. To me this brings the motherboard into question.
I will work up some tests to do on your motherboard to find out if there is a problem there preventing your NAC card from activating. Stay tuned.
You are going to get your ohmmeter going on this. I want to check the motherboard for continuity on some of the card to card buss wiring of the printed circuit traces.
Each of the plug in card positions has an edge connector with 30 connections. 15 on each side. Looking at the component side of the motherboard the left side of each connector is numbered 1 through 15 from top to bottom. The right side pins are designated by letters. These are A, B, C, D, E, F, H, J, K, L, M, N, P, R, and S. Letters with shapes that could be confused with numbers were skipped.
There are 11 power and control buss circuit traces in a 2001 system. These connect to to all card slots in the system. Cards are designed to use which buss conductors they need for operation. These buss conductors are printed on the back of the board so they are not visible when the board is in the box.
I am interested in four of these buss conductors right now. They are 15, A, C, and D. These are absolutely necessary to have a zone report alarm to the control module and have the control module activate the relays on the NAC cards. Checking these may be easier with the motherboard removed from the box. The back side can also be given a thorough visual examination. Look for burned places or circuit foil that has become detached from the board. These are signs of the circuit being overloaded.
Buss - - - - use
15 - - 0 V common to all cards.
A - - - +24 volts resettable.
C - - - alarm report pulse from zone to control module.
D - - - NAC relay activation from control module to NAC card relays.
Remove all plug in modules and keep panel powered down. You need to check that buss, 15, A, C, and D all have continuity from the control module slot (J1) to the other sockets. These tests can be done from the component side of the board. The PC sockets have an opening on the sides and the metal circuit board pins in the connector are accessible for meter probes. Here is a picture.
[attachment=0]2001-PC-board-connector.jpg[/attachment]
Check that each of these conductors are connected from the control module socket to all other PC edge connectors. Resistance should be very near zero ohms. In practical application there may be 1 to 3 ohms or so showing. That is OK. There is always some connection resistance to the meter probes and residual resistance in the meter.
Thanks for all your help with the 200. I know do much more now but I am selling the motherboard and have acquired a new one so we will see what happens next but for now no need to troubleshoot
Thanks!
Does the buyer know that the card is defective?