The "Mysterious" 2901-9838!

Fire Alarms
21
[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81048 time=1531790301 user_id=4326] [quote=gpburdell post_id=81047 time=1531784323 user_id=4666]

Long-time lurker here, finally made an account since I might be able to contribute.

I think El Chupacabra is right that some later 9838s were assembled with the newer mechanism. The dorm I lived in last year was full of them: labeled 2901-9838 on the bottom edge, old font, but with the silver horn behind the grille, mounted on 9105 strobe plates. I seem to recall them sounding a bit more like OP’s video than others on Youtube. The building was built in 1993, panel was a 4100 classic, and some areas of the building had 9219s instead, all of which lead me to believe the place was built right at the end of the 9838 production cycle.

[/quote]

So my original guess could’ve be correct? Wow, fascinating! I could see these “silver-grill’d” -9838s being on -9105 strobe plates. Because usually the orignal “black-grill’d” -9838s were mounted on -9101 strobes plates as opposed to the -9105 strobe plates (unless it was a renovation or something like that). The -9838 in general I think was discontinued completely in 1995 or somewhere in the mid-90s. So, that would mean the circuit board designed horns could’ve been introduced in the early-90s about. Yeah, and that would mean the -9838 I have might’ve been one of the “final production” units of the -9838s. All of this is just assumption, but it’s very interesting.

I believe Destin (thesdx) also had a -9838 kind of like this :-/ (at least the silver-grill model that is). It was also on a -9105 strobe plate. But maybe I’m wrong. Honestly this is cool stuff we’re find out :slight_smile:

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for? :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

Note that those with silver instead of black also have the older Faraday mechanism. About when the circuit board horn was designed, it was made when Faraday dropped the frosted stobes, in favor of the ADA F-Series transparent strobes, either in 1993 or 1994.

22
[quote=kcin556 post_id=81049 time=1531792841 user_id=2844] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81048 time=1531790301 user_id=4326]

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for?

[/quote]

Original Poster. In this case, you :smiley:

[/quote]

Okay, that was what I was originally gonna assume :wink:. Thanks for confirming

23
[quote=thegeet post_id=81050 time=1531796549 user_id=3758] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81048 time=1531790301 user_id=4326] [quote=gpburdell post_id=81047 time=1531784323 user_id=4666]

Long-time lurker here, finally made an account since I might be able to contribute.

I think El Chupacabra is right that some later 9838s were assembled with the newer mechanism. The dorm I lived in last year was full of them: labeled 2901-9838 on the bottom edge, old font, but with the silver horn behind the grille, mounted on 9105 strobe plates. I seem to recall them sounding a bit more like OP’s video than others on Youtube. The building was built in 1993, panel was a 4100 classic, and some areas of the building had 9219s instead, all of which lead me to believe the place was built right at the end of the 9838 production cycle.

[/quote]

So my original guess could’ve be correct? Wow, fascinating! I could see these “silver-grill’d” -9838s being on -9105 strobe plates. Because usually the orignal “black-grill’d” -9838s were mounted on -9101 strobes plates as opposed to the -9105 strobe plates (unless it was a renovation or something like that). The -9838 in general I think was discontinued completely in 1995 or somewhere in the mid-90s. So, that would mean the circuit board designed horns could’ve been introduced in the early-90s about. Yeah, and that would mean the -9838 I have might’ve been one of the “final production” units of the -9838s. All of this is just assumption, but it’s very interesting.

I believe Destin (thesdx) also had a -9838 kind of like this :-/ (at least the silver-grill model that is). It was also on a -9105 strobe plate. But maybe I’m wrong. Honestly this is cool stuff we’re find out :slight_smile:

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for? :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

Note that those with silver instead of black also have the older Faraday mechanism. About when the circuit board horn was designed, it was made when Faraday dropped the frosted stobes, in favor of the ADA F-Series transparent strobes, either in 1993 or 1994.

[/quote]

Oh yeah, like the -9846 and -9816 (maybe?). Those had the early Faraday mechanism I believe.

So, I guess figuring the actual “date” of this horn is still kind of “undetermined” for the time being. Mid-90s is not a bad guess though since like what you said, the circuit board horns were being produced at the time when the ADA required strobes be at least 15CD or more (this pretty much “eliminated” the frosted strobes, since most were usually under 15CD), which was about the mid-90s.

But it’s currently still “undetermined” whether this is a mislabeled 4901-9817, or maybe a later model -9838 (like during the “final production”, mid-90s’ish), or maybe something completely different :?. We’re finding good information, so that’s good

24
[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81055 time=1531802978 user_id=4326] [quote=thegeet post_id=81050 time=1531796549 user_id=3758] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81048 time=1531790301 user_id=4326]

So my original guess could’ve be correct? Wow, fascinating! I could see these “silver-grill’d” -9838s being on -9105 strobe plates. Because usually the orignal “black-grill’d” -9838s were mounted on -9101 strobes plates as opposed to the -9105 strobe plates (unless it was a renovation or something like that). The -9838 in general I think was discontinued completely in 1995 or somewhere in the mid-90s. So, that would mean the circuit board designed horns could’ve been introduced in the early-90s about. Yeah, and that would mean the -9838 I have might’ve been one of the “final production” units of the -9838s. All of this is just assumption, but it’s very interesting.

I believe Destin (thesdx) also had a -9838 kind of like this :-/ (at least the silver-grill model that is). It was also on a -9105 strobe plate. But maybe I’m wrong. Honestly this is cool stuff we’re find out :slight_smile:

Call me dumb, but what does “OP” stand for? :stuck_out_tongue:

[/quote]

Note that those with silver instead of black also have the older Faraday mechanism. About when the circuit board horn was designed, it was made when Faraday dropped the frosted stobes, in favor of the ADA F-Series transparent strobes, either in 1993 or 1994.

[/quote]

Oh yeah, like the -9846 and -9816 (maybe?). Those had the early Faraday mechanism I believe.

So, I guess figuring the actual “date” of this horn is still kind of “undetermined” for the time being. Mid-90s is not a bad guess though since like what you said, the circuit board horns were being produced at the time when the ADA required strobes be at least 15CD or more (this pretty much “eliminated” the frosted strobes, since most were usually under 15CD), which was about the mid-90s.

But it’s currently still “undetermined” whether this is a mislabeled 4901-9817, or maybe a later model -9838 (like during the “final production”, mid-90s’ish), or maybe something completely different :?. We’re finding good information, so that’s good

[/quote]

The 9846 and some 9838’s had the contact mechanism and silver “grill” (really the diaphragm). The 4901-9816 is the flush mount version of the 9817. Now we know the 4901-9816/9817 are the HNH version of the 4901 horns. The 2901-9838 labeled horn with the circuit board horn is obviously not one of those. The former draws 0.65A. The latter draws 0.35A. In that case, the inner guts of the horn from thefirealarm9 are just like a 4901-9805.

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[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81055 time=1531802978 user_id=4326] But it's currently still "undetermined" whether this is a mislabeled 4901-9817, or maybe a later model -9838 (like during the "final production", mid-90s'ish), or maybe something completely different :?.

[/quote]

If this is indeed one of the last 9838s, it seems odd that your horn has the older-style Simplex label instead of the newer label (such as the one on https://www.ebay.com/itm/Simplex-2901-9838-Fire-Alarm-Horn/142847053294?hash=item2142590dee%3Ag%3Aoo0AAOSwU3VbNH0f&_sacat=0&_nkw=simplex+9838&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsimplex+9838.TRS1 this 9838). This, along with the fact that the current draw listed on your horn’s label does not appear to match that of any of the newer Faraday horns, points to the possibility that it has perhaps been mislabeled or altered.

I’m not sure about the discontinuation date for the US-market 9838, but its Canadian counterpart, the 12901-9801, seems to have been available as late as 2000, as evidenced by the date listed on https://simplex-fire.com/en/us/DocumentsandMedia/S12901-0002-2.PDF this datasheet. I’ve always assumed that the 9838 was discontinued in the mid '90s in the US (around the time Simplex introduced its “rectangular” 4901/4903-series signals). I wouldn’t be surprised if these horns had been kept in production exclusively for the Canadian market after being discontinued in the States since Simplex never sold its “rectangular” signals north of the border, leaving them (as far as I know) with no other ULC listed offerings in the category of horns during the late '90s.

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[quote="El Chupacabra" post_id=81065 time=1531867470 user_id=2572] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81055 time=1531802978 user_id=4326] But it's currently still "undetermined" whether this is a mislabeled 4901-9817, or maybe a later model -9838 (like during the "final production", mid-90s'ish), or maybe something completely different :?.

[/quote]

If this is indeed one of the last 9838s, it seems odd that your horn has the older-style Simplex label instead of the newer label (such as the one on https://www.ebay.com/itm/Simplex-2901-9838-Fire-Alarm-Horn/142847053294?hash=item2142590dee%3Ag%3Aoo0AAOSwU3VbNH0f&_sacat=0&_nkw=simplex+9838&_from=R40&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.Xsimplex+9838.TRS1 this 9838). This, along with the fact that the current draw listed on your horn’s label does not appear to match that of any of the newer Faraday horns, points to the possibility that it has perhaps been mislabeled or altered.

I’m not sure about the discontinuation date for the US-market 9838, but its Canadian counterpart, the 12901-9801, seems to have been available as late as 2000, as evidenced by the date listed on https://simplex-fire.com/en/us/DocumentsandMedia/S12901-0002-2.PDF this datasheet. I’ve always assumed that the 9838 was discontinued in the mid '90s in the US (around the time Simplex introduced its “rectangular” 4901/4903-series signals). I wouldn’t be surprised if these horns had been kept in production exclusively for the Canadian market after being discontinued in the States since Simplex never sold its “rectangular” signals north of the border, leaving them (as far as I know) with no other ULC listed offerings in the category of horns during the late '90s.

[/quote]

Interesting how you spotted that. I could see an “altering” might’ve possibly been involved. Like I mentioned, the box that the -9838 came in didn’t even fit the horn properly. So either that was intentional by the owner or manufacturer, or maybe something else. I could be wrong too. Who knows

Hmm, and the guy I bought it from wasn’t even in Canada :?. Another possibility could’ve been the horn was originally from Canada, but then came into the U.S. somehow. Not sure, but it could’ve been possible. If that were the case though, it seems strange that the cover plate would be the -9838 one, and not the 12901-9801 one. Could’ve been a error maybe?

The horn I was going to originally refer to in the last post or two was not the -9817, it was the 2901-9820. Just thought I’d say that.

27

Real quickly; if I wanted to confirm the amperage of the silver horn, how exactly would I do that? This would help since I can’t seem to find any detail of the horn itself just from the numbers on the back “E4300” and “500620” :?

Is there a certain tool that I should use? This would definitely help use narrow down the options because if the horn so happens to be .065 amps, then we can eliminate most of the older horns and ones that draw .035 amps. This would also lead us to believe that the -9838 grille, which stats it has .035 amps, doesn’t belong or was “altered” or “mislabeled” as many stated. If it were the other way around and the horn is .035 amps (which seems unlikely since this is the newer circuit board design, and most of the newer circuit board design horns are mainly .065 amps I believe), then we can eliminate the newer horns and the ones that have .065 amps. Basically vice versa :wink:

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Maybe by hooking an ammeter (or ampmeter I don’t know how it is written) on the horn that should give you an albeit vague idea on how much the horn draws. It’s not a 1:1 precise solution however.

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Well I ended using a digital multimeter (which has the function of a ammeter :wink:). But I might be using it wrong though :?. I couldn’t get a reading at ALL sadly. Again, I’m either using it wrong or something else.

I did find some numbers on the circuit board though. Like a date of 09/07/94 (which might be the date the circuit board was manufactured, OR maybe the entire horn unit itself :)). Here’s a picture I tried to take of all the info:

1024×768 101 KB

Hope this information helps. And if not, well, guess we’ll keep digging. I think we’re getting closer to finding out what kind of horn this is (although the 4901-9805 isn’t a “terrible” guess) :wink:.

30

I just checked my 4901-9805, and it also carries the date 09/07/94. Because it is etched in as a trace on the circuit board rather than silk-screened, this is likely the date that this particular circuit board design was last revised.

Also, I noticed that this horn has the connection pegs for a rectangular 4903 series strobe built into the board. Some of my other horns like this that Faraday manufactured for “standalone” use without a strobe do not have these, although the -9805 horn still carries them despite being audible only.

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[quote=kcin556 post_id=81084 time=1532023681 user_id=2844]

I just checked my 4901-9805, and it also carries the date 09/07/94. Because it is etched in as a trace on the circuit board rather than silk-screened, this is likely the date that this particular circuit board design was last revised.

Also, I noticed that this horn has the connection pegs for a rectangular 4903 series strobe built into the board. Some of my other horns like this that Faraday manufactured for “standalone” use without a strobe do not have these, although the -9805 horn still carries them despite being audible only.

[/quote]

I think the 4901-9805 could be the likely match to what this horn really is :slight_smile:

Here’s a video of a 4901-9805. If you go to 2:25, you’ll see the E4300" and “500620” :D. Coincidence? Could this be our mystery horn? https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rGSPOvYM_y0 (video was by NewEnglandElevators :wink:)

The -9805 amperage is from .033 amps to .047 amps btw

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[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81086 time=1532050116 user_id=4326] [quote=kcin556 post_id=81084 time=1532023681 user_id=2844]

I just checked my 4901-9805, and it also carries the date 09/07/94. Because it is etched in as a trace on the circuit board rather than silk-screened, this is likely the date that this particular circuit board design was last revised.

Also, I noticed that this horn has the connection pegs for a rectangular 4903 series strobe built into the board. Some of my other horns like this that Faraday manufactured for “standalone” use without a strobe do not have these, although the -9805 horn still carries them despite being audible only.

[/quote]

Here’s a video of a 4901-9805. If you go to 2:25, you’ll see the E4300" and “500620” :D. Coincidence? Could this be our mystery horn?
[/quote]

Nevermind about the numbers :(. They’re also on other alarms like the Siemens U-HN series. So, I guess they won’t be much help. Bummer…

So, I guess I might have to rely on the date code possibly (which means this is maybe a -9805 as mentioned several times). I’m not sure, but unless I can find a reading of the amperage of my horn, then there’s really nothing else I can think of that would help us determine the REAL model of this horn. Oh well

33
[quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81111 time=1532291848 user_id=4326] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81086 time=1532050116 user_id=4326] [quote=kcin556 post_id=81084 time=1532023681 user_id=2844]

I just checked my 4901-9805, and it also carries the date 09/07/94. Because it is etched in as a trace on the circuit board rather than silk-screened, this is likely the date that this particular circuit board design was last revised.

Also, I noticed that this horn has the connection pegs for a rectangular 4903 series strobe built into the board. Some of my other horns like this that Faraday manufactured for “standalone” use without a strobe do not have these, although the -9805 horn still carries them despite being audible only.

[/quote]

Here’s a video of a 4901-9805. If you go to 2:25, you’ll see the E4300" and “500620” :D. Coincidence? Could this be our mystery horn?
[/quote]

Nevermind about the numbers :(. They’re also on other alarms like the Siemens U-HN series. So, I guess they won’t be much help. Bummer…

So, I guess I might have to rely on the date code possibly (which means this is maybe a -9805 as mentioned several times). I’m not sure, but unless I can find a reading of the amperage of my horn, then there’s really nothing else I can think of that would help us determine the REAL model of this horn. Oh well

[/quote]

I’d say it is a pretty close guess.

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[quote=thegeet post_id=81120 time=1532320871 user_id=3758] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81111 time=1532291848 user_id=4326] [quote=thefirealarm9 post_id=81086 time=1532050116 user_id=4326]

Here’s a video of a 4901-9805. If you go to 2:25, you’ll see the E4300" and “500620” :D. Coincidence? Could this be our mystery horn?
[/quote]

Nevermind about the numbers :(. They’re also on other alarms like the Siemens U-HN series. So, I guess they won’t be much help. Bummer…

So, I guess I might have to rely on the date code possibly (which means this is maybe a -9805 as mentioned several times). I’m not sure, but unless I can find a reading of the amperage of my horn, then there’s really nothing else I can think of that would help us determine the REAL model of this horn. Oh well

[/quote]

I’d say it is a pretty close guess.

[/quote]

I guess it would make sense they’re both made by Simplex :?. Interesting…