Siemens Pyrotronics System 3-Trouble Alarm on Power Restore

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brycenesbitt
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 2:02 am

I'd like to know if this is normal. I'm working on a Siemens Pyrotronics System 3 installed in 1977.
After power loss the unit runs on batteries fine. On power restore the unit rings the trouble alarm, and
some poor sop has to wake up to silence it.
Is this normal behavior?

A photo of the exact unit is at:
http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=159834
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Destin
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 12:04 pm

Hi! I believe the trouble buzzer should only sound on AC restore if there is a trouble in the system. If the trouble light is burnt out (which is very common on these), there may be a system-wide trouble such as a ground fault and you wouldn't see it. Best way to check is to meter the trouble relay contacts. I have a CP-30 manual somewhere and can get you the terminal numbers as soon as I find it.
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brycenesbitt
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Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:50 pm

Yes, that sounds right. There IS a system wide trouble on this panel.

The CP-30 audible trouble yellow LED is always lit. The yellow neon trouble bulb is burnt out. All the individual zone trouble indicators work fine.
This apparently started happening after a lightning strike. So the power loss must be resetting the panel and re-reporting the trouble.

I have Pry-A-Larm 315-021302 Install and Maintenance manual, but it's rather shy of pinouts or schematics. I'll post separately about the CP-35.
brycenesbitt
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 12:51 pm

Any tips you have on troubleshooting a panel-wide trouble (when the zone troubles are fine) would be a great help!
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NewAgeServer
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:45 pm

Disconnect all the wires except for the 120V power and the battery backup. Be sure you label each one. Stick end of line resistors on all the zones and NACs. If the panel is still in trouble after that, it is probably an internal fault. The next thing you can do is power down the system completely and disconnect all of the expansion cards so that the main cpu is the only thing left. If it is still in trouble, time for a new panel.

Your System 3 is so old that I would recommend getting a quote from someone for a replacement, since panels usually don't survive lightning strikes anyway.

What kind of facility is this anyway?
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brycenesbitt
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 2:50 pm

This is a private mountain lodge.
An upgrade to viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6325 is possible if the right cables can be made or found.
brycenesbitt
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Thu Feb 27, 2014 3:14 pm

Note the CP-30 uses 50mfd capacitors, not resistors, at the ends of lines.
brycenesbitt
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Tue Mar 04, 2014 12:50 pm

NewAgeServer wrote:The next thing you can do is power down the system completely and disconnect all of the expansion cards so that the main cpu is the only thing left. If it is still in trouble, time for a new panel.
There's one more step: at the end of the expansion cards there's a supervisory wire back to the panel.
That makes the list as far as I can tell:
  • Disconnect panel zones, replace with end of line device (50 mfd capacitors in my case)
  • Disconnect bell, replace with end of line resistor.
  • Disconnect the expansion cards and route the end of chain wire plug directly back to the panel.
  • Clear the panel trouble with the switch.
I'm unclear what to do with the BC-30 charger. The panel initiates trouble if I remove it, so I don't know if there is some special step needed to eliminate it as a cause of the panel trouble indicator.
brycenesbitt
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Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:32 am

End story: I replaced the CP-30 and the issue went away: the system has operated ever since.
A loose wire on a detector head was an additional unrelated problem.
Dabensha
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:00 am

I am new to this area. I am the recent owner of a 14 room inn with restaurant in the lower level. There is a 20 year old Siemens Pyrotronics System 3-Trouble Alarm system that needs attention. I am in Baltimore, MD. Does anyone know where I can find someone who can help diagnose and repair? Thank you. David Shapiro 410-340-8911
Last edited by Destin on Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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brycenesbitt
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 11:05 am

Try posting a new thread.

Likely you'll have to call all the fire alarm people in your area, and resist their calls to replace the system.
Replacement may be warranted, but don't be sure of that.
chris+s
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Tue Oct 20, 2015 1:16 pm

Dabensha wrote:I am new to this area. I am the recent owner of a 14 room inn with restaurant in the lower level. There is a 20 year old Siemens Pyrotronics System 3-Trouble Alarm system that needs attention. I am in Baltimore, MD. Does anyone know where I can find someone who can help diagnose and repair? Thank you. David Shapiro 410-340-8911
Siemens bought out Pytrotronics. Try calling (301) 837-2850 and ask for their service department.
brycenesbitt
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Thu Nov 29, 2018 6:53 pm

OP here: the described system is still working great. I had to replace two of the three neon lights (power/trouble) that's it. But the local inspection company that deals with this panel is not great, and nobody else will test it for local fire department purposes.
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Wed Dec 19, 2018 9:48 am

System 3 will be discontinued in October 2019 - you may want to look at replacing the panel entirely.
I've forgotten more than I remember.
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