Keep in mind that decisions are being made by JCI rather than Simplex. They want to get the greatest return on investment from Simplex technology. I don’t think it will affect Simplex’s marketshare at all, nor will Simplex discontinue their conventional devices. It will just be a way to profit from the vast number of local distributors across the country who often win bids for retrofits/takeovers and smaller applications. Simplex often wins bids for new construction or large institutions with multiple systems. Two brands for two different markets.
At the same time, these two markets aren’t always so cut and dry. There are other less-tangible factors that differ from place to place. JCI may already provide other services for a building and can be more competitive to retain that customer. Or, Joe Schmoe the Autocall dealer might have a great reputation around town and bids very competitively to build a solid local customer base. Therefore, JCI has a better shot at covering all bases by having an in-house brand and a distributor brand that can both deliver systems of all sizes. The great thing about both brands having the same product line is that they recoup the cost of R&D and manufacturing together. Autocall might not sell as many big 4100ES systems as Simplex, but the cost of making that system is subsidized by Simplex’s higher-volume orders. It also keeps the cost down for smaller dealerships to be able to offer larger systems.
The same corporate structure has worked with other companies. Siemens has the identical Desigo and Cerberus line of panels, with the only difference being that Desigo is installed by Siemens as part of their building controls service, and Cerberus is sold to distributors. Same with the Honeywell XLS series, which is rebranded Notifier equipment installed by Honeywell for their building controls customers.
Based on what Johnson Controls has told to its employees and distributors, it’s going to be #2.
I have heard some about this from people I know still with the company. However, I don’t have any information beyond what is here already.
Based on some history I would also predict the number 2 selection in the previous post. Ansul was also a Tyco company and the original 4010 was shared with them. I had a software key (aka. dongle) that had some extra ports opened. That key would start the Simplex 4010 programmer as the AP Programmer. The program would read the same database information but when the job was built the CFIG file created would crash a Simplex version panel if downloaded to it.
I’m not going to quote Destin, as that would make this post huge, but I do after what he said think that it’s very likely that my option 2 is probably what’s going to happen, and what Retired STR-SG said basically confirms it.
Then I guess the unbranded versions of TBars will start having Autocall stamped on them? And maybe we’ll see some Autocall branded TrueAlerts or a whole new series of NAs?
I’m 95% certain they’ll use TrueAlerts (so now we’ll call them Simplex/Autocall TrueAlert). And if they don’t, they’ll use Wheelock Exceders or SpectrAlert Advances System Sensor L-Series.
I’d imagine that if they are keeping TrueAlert ES technology they’ll just be putting the Autocall label on top of the TrueAlert signals and change the ID code so that only Autocall-branded panels will talk to it. Same for pull stations and smoke detectors. Re-labelled T-Bars and TrueAlarm modules with different ID codes (just like Fire-Lite, Notifier, etc).
As for switching to FWR power supplies and just using System Sensor/Wheelock devices (as mentioned a little earlier), I think that is unlikely. Most addressable panels NEED filtered DC anyway because the ripples on FWR could interfere with communications. Besides which, Simplex power supplies already output filtered DC. A power supply that supplies FWR might require less components (on the order of one giant capacitor and a few smoothing circuits) but would have to be designed from scratch, tested, and approved. In the long run it’s almost certainly more cost-effective to just use Simplex hardware that has already been designed, tested, and certified, then just modify the code software so that it only allows communication between the Autocall-branded devices.
If not TrueAlert probably Wheelock. The Simplex power supplies already have Wheelock sync built into them. And the Wheelock devices are UL listed as special application devices on the 4100ES.
It’s not a new system, they simply have two identical systems called two different things depending on who’s selling them. 1. simplex branded panels that will be sold directly through simplex/JCI, and 2. autocall branded panels that will be sold through 3rd party vendors (the same vendors/dealer who already sells JCI controls and want to get their hands on the new fire alarms JCI just acquired).
Joe Electrical will now be able to pick up and sell the Autocall branded panel that’s identical to the Simplex branded panel, and therefore has the same technology/reliability/research/familiarity/etc as the Simplex branded version.
its just two different modes of doing business, one is direct, one is through resellers. JCI has always used resellers along with going direct so it makes perfect sense to push simplex panels (rebranded as Autocall to make a differentiation) out to their already established reseller base.
It’s a direct copy of what Siemens did with their Cerberus/Desigo lines, both panels are identical but branded different depending on the sales outlet to the customer base.
It’s not a move to compete with smaller systems, or an introduction of anything new, it’s just a way to get their product out through other means other than direct to customer through a Simplex branch.
As for the old autocall panels, they’re dead and will stay dead.
Perhaps a bump, but I’ve been away from TFP for awhile to prepare for school.
I like the idea, but only if they bring back the 4006, 4008, and 4010 lines, use TrueAlert signals, and probably either Simplex T-bars with “Autocall” stamped on the bottom instead of “Simplex”, or metal Sigcom or RSG pulls with “Autocall” stamped on them.
This has all been stated before, but Simplex has a stigma among them for being an “elite” brand that is out of budget with most economy-minded end-users. Having equipment that is just as good but is a generation or two behind the times would make things cheaper for the budget-minded consumer who wants Simplex quality, but can’t afford a proper Simplex system.
If they decide to just use the same products (ES panels, addressable signals, etc.) as Simplex uses now, I don’t see the point.
What I know so far:
AutoCall will be an independent dealer program (think Notifier or Gamewell-FCI) that will offer rebranded Simplex panels. Devices will be backwards compatible with each other but panel parts will not (like mixing Simplex and AutoCall on the same network will not be supported).
For JCI, this is a smart play to stop the bleeding. Simplex has such a bad name in certain markets, having a local distributor come in with the same technology will help win more. But what would prevent Simplex from coming in and stealing (valuable) service from AutoCall? Or on bid day is AutoCall going to get better pricing than JCI or Simplex? And any dealers jumping ship to AutoCall will most likely be blackballed on carrying other product lines.
Program is officially slated to be kicked off in December 2017.
I know of several ESD’s that have been approached or already signed to the Autocall Program. Depending on their existing line and how much product they they buy every year will depend on whether they will be dropped. Every Mfg is trying to get a bigger share of the pie and the pie isnt getting any bigger. JCI wants to sell more hardware and this is the way to do it. I heard at NFPA from reliable sources that it is a re branding of the 4100 with different protocols. The few that have signed up say there are no restrictions on chasing Simplex existing business . Time will tell. Many of the manufacturers are now going direct to the electrical contractor cutting out the Fire ESD. Some are saturating the markets with new ESDs helping themselves but eroding the ESD’s margins. An electrical contractor can buy a 1000 + point panel over the counter and even get a security trunk slammer to program it for him. Good Times.
Here’s the deal… its real. Same product, same pricing this is big!! … Dealers have access to all of it, from 4006 to true-site and everything in between.
EST, Notifier, Siemens, beware this will hurt!!
I get your point Simplex is a nice line. As an ex-Simplexer so much of what made them successful was the business plan/desire that allowed them to take projects at a loss. For a local guy I don’t know if that is going to have the same appeal.
I also wonder what sort of dealers they’re going to get, I wouldn’t expect they’d want/be able to pick up a Notifer or other Top Tier partner. So you’re taking a guy who is used to 5820XLs and 9600UDLS panels and saying go sell a 4100ES and a true site campus package? There may be some markets where they make a big splash and I’m sure there will be companies that take advantage of the Simplex install base but I don’t see it being all that earth shattering. Siemens is too expensive, but Notifier in particular I can’t imagine being particularly worried except maybe in certain markets.
Looks like the 4007ES and 4006 are the only panels currently listed on their website.
If that’s how it stays, good move. I was hoping Johnson Controls would use Autocall to recapture the small to mid-sized facility market Simplex has lost.
I wonder how long it’ll be before someone connects some conventional TrueAlerts to a non-Simplex/Autocall power supply, and then decides to leave it that way when they sound in continuous or the strobe flashes at 5hz. I’ve seen some AHJs let both of those things slide…