I have somewhat asked this question before.
Here is the link to the previous post
<URL url="Question regarding FA connected to CORE System text=“viewtopic.php?f=3&t=8145&p=73177&hilit=core#p73178”>Question regarding FA connected to CORE System
We have spoken with some local AHJ’s from different jurisdictions (Texas) and they basically told us we need to go to the state FMO. I am trying to compile code and standards about this issue so we can properly present it when we do. I have dug through NFPA 72, 96, 17A, 13, and IFC 2012. I have found some good references, but hope that maybe some of you can help me, so I may provide AHJ’s and FA companies definitive proof of what is required of them.
I guess I need to find something that says these systems MUST be monitored for trouble and supervisory signals. Alarm guys have refused to hook them up this way. And hypothetically speaking, if the wire to the kitchen system pull or heat detector was cut, then the system would not activate and the building would not go into alarm in a fire situation. It also would not produce a trouble signal to the FA Panel or central station.
• A traditional kitchen system activates the switch mechanically, I understand it is not the FA tech’s responsibility to test the mechanics of the kitchen system. But only that the switch transmits the gen. alarm signal. It is not possible to do that with these systems.
• So If you are unable to test a kitchen system because there is no micro switch, should the building FA be “yellow tagged”?
• The closest thing I can find in NFPA 72 is section 184.108.40.206 (see attachment). Though I am not entirely sure it is addressing my specific concerns. So maybe you can help here.
• I am not sure if this question falls under you all’s expertise, but if these systems require low voltage wire to be ran during installation, would it be required for the installer to have some sort of “low voltage license” in addition to their kitchen system license? I found this link here…
<LINK_TEXT text=“http://www.necanet.org/professional-dev … ents#texas”>http://www.necanet.org/professional-development/careers-in-electrical-contracting/licensure/state-code-licensing-requirements/low-voltage-state-licensing-requirements#texas</LINK_TEXT>
NFPA 70 has very little regarding low voltage wiring…
This post seemed better thought out in my head, but its late and I am tired of looking through code books. But whatever help you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
I have somewhat asked this question before.
First of off, you are the building owner (I’m assuming). It doesn’t matter what the minimum code requirement is, if you want something ABOVE what the code requires, it shouldn’t matter. We have plenty of customers like this. Even if the code stated this system is not required to be interconnected to the fire alarm system, if you want it hooked up, keep calling until you find a company willing to accept your money. Unless the code stated this system SHALL NOT be connected, I don’t see why you couldn’t. If you are on the opposite end and don’t want it connected, wait for the fire marshal to make you hook it up, that would be all the proof you need as they are infallible to any codes!
Second, I looked back in your original post and looked at the PDF manual you listed. Page 15 has the connections to the building fire alarm system (terminals AL1 & AL2). This is a simple relay (dry contact) that closes to activate the building fire alarm system. Nothing unusual here, any competent fire alarm technician should be able to run a wire from the building fire alarm panel to the CORE system to connect up to these terminals. He may not be comfortable wiring directly to the CORE system, but should leave you enough wire for the contractor of the CORE system to connect it up. If you have an addressable fire alarm, the FA technician may just need to run a wire from the closest device (heat, pull, etc) and install a module next to the CORE system for this purpose. This is nothing unusual for a fire alarm technician, there are other kitchen hood systems, special hazard systems, and sprinkler systems where they just run the wire and leave it for another contractor to connect to their equipment. They might want to return to verify things were connected properly (and probably should) but other than that, what do they care!
I can look at the codes later but have to leave soon for work. Maybe someone else who has a code book handy can look up the specific codes for you.
Thanks for the reply Lambda. I am not the building owner. I am a licensed kitchen suppression technician, my company does almost 300 kitchen system installs a year and we are now being contracted to install these systems. In fact I just received a PO today that is a regular Ansul R-102 system, but with heat detectors instead of fusible links, an electric pull station instead of a mechanical one. The detection components are the same used for system in my original post, but they will be used to actuate the Ansul system. This is the first one that will be installed in my city.
How would you go about testing the alarm activation on this system during one of your inspections there is no micro switch for you to press? Maybe I am being ignorant of what is required of an alarm technician during their annual inspection…
Gotcha. I would think you would be doing 100% of the install of the system then or at least contracting out the electrical part if you are not licensed to do so. As far as connecting to the building FACP, leave that up to the building owner and fire alarm company. You provide them with the set of contacts and they take it from there. Worst case, be on site when they are there so everything goes smoothly.
As far as testing, I’ll have to look at the documentation again but worst case I would say you and the fire alarm company would need to be on site at the same time for testing. We don’t do kitchen hood systems but are on good terms with a local company. So we do a good job coordinating inspections - we get to see the Ansul system alarm, they don’t have to worry about disabling a fire alarm panel.
Ok I see. And that is what I really wanted to know, the customer and FA company should be aware that the FA Co. will have to have both present when the system is inspected every six months. Not just any company may work on these systems either, you must be certified by the manufacturer.
I have just been concerned with whether or not I can tag these systems compliant if the alarm company refuses to monitor it for trouble and supervisory. But that would fall under my K license and ill have to present the information to the AHJ I guess.
Another reason I have brought this up, is because I have reason to believe the manufacturer is installing and servicing these systems using technicians who have no licensing for fire protection whatsoever. I see these systems requiring a K and Alarm license for installation.
Thanks for all of your input.