Detailed Panel Help Video

Figured I’d make a decent video explaining what’s wrong (Sort of). So hopefully someone can help out: <LINK_TEXT text=“ … LD2ygMojAQ”></LINK_TEXT>

I watched the video and here are the items I can answer quickly.

I sent Dropbox links to the Installation and Operating Instructions and the Field Wiring Diagrams some time ago. Be sure to use these.

The SYSTEM TROUBLE LED will be on whenever there is any trouble in the panel.

ZONE 1 goes into alarm when you activate the station. This is good.

I cannot see the value of the resistor on the pull station. This should be 3,300 ohms (orange, orange, red).

All the other zones are in trouble because they do not have 3,300 ohm resistors connected.

You are connecting a class B (Style Y ) circuit for the horn. That should connect to the S1B+ and S1B- terminals or the S2B+ and S2B- terminals.

The “A” designated terminals are for connecting the return wiring for a Class A (Style Z) signal circuit. They only connect to a on board EOLR until the panel goes into alarm. Then signal power is connected to these terminals.

I cannot see the resistor on the horn well enough to figure out the value. 4002 signal circuits use 10,000 ohm resistors (brown, black, orange).

The voltage you are seeing at the S1B+, S1B-, S2B+, and S2B- terminals in standby (non alarm) mode is the supervision voltage to check that the NAC is not open or shorted. That is a normal function of a fire alarm control panel.

Your switch settings are SW1-1 off. This selects Alarm Verification on all zones. A pull station is a short across the zone so will not be verified.

SW2-2 off disables the Manual Evac button.

SW2-3 off selects March Time coding.

Your panel has the ESP chip in socket U26. This is an X2004 NOVRAM chip. This chip can contain custom programming that can override normal panel functions for custom operation. It can do things like selective signaling, non alarm zones for tamper switches, and many other functions.

Programming in the ESP chip could be preventing the signal circuits from activating from zone 1. Have you tried other zones?

The panel can be returned to a standard DIP switch programming only panel by removing the ESP chip from the socket. It is best to store the chip in some sort of anti-static package.

You can also reduce the panel to only the CPU board by removing the 40 pin ribbon cable going to the expansion modules.

[size=150]Be sure to make any changes with power disconnected from the panel.[/size]

I noticed that the panel does not do the beep, beep on the piezo when it went into alarm. I also remembered your panel has a 4120 network card in it. The alarm functions could be controlled from another panel on the network. That would mean all functions are being done through the network and this is controlled in the ESP chip.

In this case I would definitely try operating the panel with the ESP chip removed. Signal circuit activation could be waiting for a command from the master panel that is not going to happen.

I’ve pulled on the ESP chip, but it wont budge. Any ideas? (And I’ve been looking at the diagrams/manuals, thanks!)

Socket are made to hold the chip securely. Otherwise there could be intermittent connections.

Of course, the best way to remove a chip is with a chip puller tool.

The usual way is to put the tip of a small screwdriver between the chip and the socket. Then twist a little until the chip starts to come out. Then do the same action from the other end of the chip.

Once the chip is loosened it usually can be GENTLY pried out the rest of the way. Be careful to not bend or break the leads.

So I got that ESP chip off, and disconnected the Expansion Mod, and now when I pull the station, the red led blinks (Like it used to) and the piezo buzzer goes BZZ BZZ BZZ. I feel like that is a good sign!

I would edit my post to add this in, but it won’t let me. When I hook up the horn to the S1B terminals, with that random resistor in, and it still wont sound. I did, however, measure random voltages coming out of said terminals, so I assume the resistor is the problem.

We don’t know the value of that “random resistor.” The attached chart will help figure out the value.

If the resistor value is too high the circuit appears as open to the panel. The circuit will show in trouble. In this case the signal should sound.

If the resistor value is too low the circuit appears as a short condition. The circuit will show trouble. The panel will not turn on a shorted circuit.

Here is a suggestion. Set the DIP switch to steady on signals. SW2-3, SW2-4, and SW2-5 all on. The signals will not march time so your meter reading will not jump around. If the voltage in alarm matches the terminal designations of + and -, the panel is working. The horn may be bad or need adjusting.

I remember those horns. The adjustment is the nut on what looks like the breaker points from a '56 Chevy.

Okay, so, I got it working! I love the sound of that 2901-9806 in march time! :smiley: I’[m also getting the required resistors today. I may also be able to pick up some 12 volt batteries. Are any 12 volt batteries okay, or does it have to be a certain company? Also, how to I wire up a smoke? (Two wire, four wire, etc.) I doubt smokes are wired like pull stations… Thanks for the help so far!

Any sealed-lead acid 12v, 7Ah batteries will work fine. Wire them in series (connect one - terminal on one battery to the + terminal on the other, then use the remaining + and - terminals to connect to the panel).

Actually, two-wire smokes are wired in like pull stations, but they are polar sensitive. You absolutely must connect your + and - wires to the respective + and - terminals on the base for them to work. A little note, though, the i3-2W-B has an odd “smoke verification” feature that’s only compatible with certain panels (Andrew had this issue). Four-wire i3s will work just fine, though, if you know how to wire them! :wink:

Which brings me to my next point - find the resettable power terminals from your 4002. Those go to the power input of your four-wire base. Then wire the zone terminals like you would a two-wire detector.

What detectors do you have?

Got it working! That’s great!

The charging circuit in the 4002 is designed for sealed lead acid (SLA) batteries. You need two 12 volt batteries in series. Small ones will do. Around 6 AH. These can cost some money. SLA batteries from any manufacturer will work fine. I guess this means you found the battery harness or came up with a workaround.

The 4002 tests for presence of batteries about every 90 seconds. It only tests for presence of voltage. It does not do a load test. I found that for demo panels a 1,000 microfarad 50 volt capacitor instead of batteries will fool the battery test circuit. And it is a lot cheaper than batteries.

A 2-wire smoke detector connects just like a pull station, except that you have to connect it with the correct polarity. Also, any random smoke detector might work or not. 2-wire smoke detectors are manufactured to match the panel they are connected to. You will need the diagram of the particular smoke detector.

A 4-wire smoke detector’s alarm contacts connect just like a pull station. Of course they need resettable 24 volt power. The attached drawing is from page 7 of the Field Wiring Diagrams. I added a red arrow to show where the resettable power terminals are. Again, you will need the drawing for the particular smoke detector to determine which terminals do which function.

I guess you want to see a clear panel. If you are going to continue using just the CPU board leaving the expansion modules disconnected for now, there is a jumper that has to be moved. The 40 pin harness is supervised so if it gets disconnected that creates a system trouble on the panel. I included a drawing on how to locate P10 to tell the CPU there are no expansion modules.

You are lucky to get a system with a 565-180 CPU board. These have 3 pin jumpers with a two pin header plug to make the selection. The older 4002 boards had jumper wires or zero ohm resistors to cut to select an option. Undoing the selection required soldering the jumper back in.

I actually haven’t found a harness. Any ideas on where to get one or how to make one? And can I get that capactitor at radio shack? For smokes I know (I’m at school) at least I have an Edwards4269b ion and 2 system sensor 2100s photos.

Battery harnesses can be fashioned with 12v battery clips and wire.

Hey, get back to work! :lol: You’re not on Thanksgiving break yet? I am.

The capacitor is available at RS.

I might be able to come up with a battery harness. It won’t be an official 4002 harness. Those have not been made in many years. There was a 4100 harness that used the same Molex 2 pin MiniFit Jr. connector. They always shipped more of them than you could use. I may have a spare around in my left over stuff. I’ll search and let you know.

That soul be great, thanks! Any idea on how to wire up the detectors I listed. And where do I put resistors? (other than at the E.O.L.)

I found a cable quicker and easier than I thought.

Google found a datasheet for the 2100S. The connection drawing is attached. Since these were not UL listed for use with a 4002, I can’t predict if these will work or not. No additional resistors are needed. Just the EOLR.

Google is not finding anything on the Edwards 4269b.

Send me a PM so I have an address to send this cable to. I can put connectors on it for 1/4 inch battery tabs or just leave the wires unterminated. Let me know.

Actually it’s a 6249B. Sorry!

And I don’t need resistors on all the zones that nothing’s in?

I misunderstood. I thought you were asking about additional resistors for the 2-wire smoke.

All active (powered) but unused zones need a 3.3K ohm resistor to clear the trouble. Otherwise they will stay in trouble. If just using the CPU board you need 8 EOLR. If you reconnect the expansion zone modules you will need resistors for all those zones too.

All signal circuits need 10K ohm EOLR to clear the troubles on them.

I found a compatibility chart that the 6249B shows up on. It requires a 25 volt regulator module to work on the TFX loop in a 4100U/ES. The higher voltage on a 4002 zone probably would fry it.

Okay, I’ve ran into some minor problems.

1- Some screws from the terminals on the panel are missing. Any idea on what type/where to get them?

2- For some reason the LED on one of the System Sensor smokes won’t work, even when it goes into alarm. (Other than that it works)

More from the chart I found.

The 2100S is compatible with a number of Simplex panels so should work with the 4002.

The Edwards 6249B is also compatible with Simplex 4090-9101 and 4090-9106 monitor ZAMs. However, the ZAMs must be powered by the regulator I mentioned in the previous post. Any higher than 25 volts is unacceptable and will damage the Edwards detector.