We have an EST1-1Z1 panel that does not appear to indicate any issues. This week we did an alarm test. We pulled one station and the alarm went off as it should, I pressed reset on the panel. 5-10 minutes later I went back to test the pull station at the opposite side of the building and there was no alarm! I hit reset on the panel and tired again, nothing. I then pulled the next 4 stations between the two, no alarm. When I went back and pulled the first it again alarmed.
Either something is really wrong with the wiring/programming or the alarm verification is preventing another alarm. When I press reset everything appears to go back to normal and that should override any verification or delay that prevents the alarm from sounding. Is there anything you can think of that would cause this?
I am afraid there could be a wiring issue and the best case is the wiring needs to be checked between the first one (that works) and the second one (that doesn’t) as I believe everything is wired in series. Worse case is there is a wire cut somewhere??
If I remember right, EST 1 is a very basic conventional panel.
How many zones are on the panel?
Are all these pull stations on the same zone?
Are there any smokes on this zone?
If there are any smoke detectors, what are they, and are they listed as compatible with this panel?
Sounds to me like there’s a wiring fault not being detected by the panel…
Check to make sure someone didn’t stick the EOLR in the panel, where it can’t be.
Pop the wires off the zone terminals and see if you get a trouble.
While you’re at it meter out the wires with ohm mode to see if you can read the EOLR value
If you got the EOLR… while hooked onto the wires, set your meter on continuity mode and go pull the last pull station. If your meter beeps, the zone wiring is fine and the panel is the problem.
You are correct, it is a very basic looking panel. There appears to be only one zone, see attached, based on the few wires I would assume the pull stations are all in series. There are no smokes, but I didn’t look for a heat sensor and will do that tomorrow as that could be in the furnace room. Nothing should have been changed with this system, other than batteries, since its install about 10 years ago.
I will pop the zone terminals off and see if I get a trouble. I will need to borrow a multimeter again, I do have some EOLR’s… are they all universal where I can use one from another panel? I assume the last pull station has a EOLR so I should be able to test continuity.
No, EOLRs are not universal. Each panel manufacturer specifies the value of resistor to be used based on their circuit design. According to the EST1 manual I was able to find, the EOLR should be 4.7K ohms.
It sounds to me like the zone is jumped out or has been disconnected somewhere.
If you open up the pull stations that don’t work, is there any wiring to them?
If so, check to see if there is any voltage (you may need to close the pull station cover/handle to remove the short across the terminals depending on the make of the pull station - some have a toggle switch, others have a spring loaded switch that pops out when the handle is pulled or the station is opened for maintenance).
You can also check the one that works to see if there’s any other wires in the back box that may have been disconnected or if the device is the EOL. There may have been (or still is) a wiring problem between that device and the next one in line.
Thanks for the feedback @NewAgeServer, sorry for the delay in getting back to post. I did pop up the zone wires, individually, and both times received a trouble. I also jumpered/shored the zone terminal and got an alarm. I hope this means the panel is in good working order. I checked out the setup a little more in this building. The panel is in a utility room at the end of the building, in which there is also a smoke detector, then on the opposite end of the building a second utility room with a smoke detector that has a resistor sticker on it (which I presume means it has the EOL resistor in it). What would make the most sense is that the zone comes out of the panel, to the first smoke, through all 8 pull stations, and then finally EOL at the smoke at the end of the building.
Both of the smokes have lights on them, neither seems to occasionally pulsate like may other systems do. How can I test for continuity with a smoke being at the end?
I tried to use the ohm meter and did get readings, but it seemed to jump about as I was trying to hold still without touching the wires, while maintaining good contact. I then slopped and touched the panel with my hand and made it alarm. Probably enough fun for one day! I will try again and see if I get a consistent 4.7K ohms.
The pulls that we have use a toggle switch under the cover. When testing, it doesn’t matter if the covers are open… correct? So long as the toggle switch it in the “off” position, right? I will have to ask permission to get into the one unit that has a working pull station and then the adjoining unit that has one that does not work to check the wiring.
Some more follow up from my second attempt to trouble shoot.
Since I didn’t do notifications to arrange for alarm/siren testing I pulled breaker to the panel and disconnected the batteries. Once it died, I tested the zone 1 posts, with the wires in place, for continuity… none found. I then pulled my pull station, which is one smoke and seven pull stations down the line and again tested for continuity on the zone posts with the wires in place… none. So that doesn’t sound like great news for the integrity of the wiring.
I then ohm metered the posts for zone 1 and got 4.66. Compared to zone two, which just has an EOL on the panel and I got 4.65. Does this appear then to be reading the resistance of the AOL? @OldFireAlarmGuy had found the EOL for this model should be 4.7. I presume the posts themselves have little to no resistance. I did the siren posts too and got 4.63. The other posts with nothing connected test at 0.
Now sure what to make of this… lace of continuity, but with good ohm reading?? Will I get continuity with the panel powered off? I though so as the toggle at the pull station is a manual connection.
Where is the EOLR on zone 1 at? try doing an ohm reading and see if you get ~4.7, then pull a pull station and try again, should be close to 0. if you’re still getting ~4.7 then your EOLR and wiring is all messed up somehow.
The EOL appears to be on a smoke detector at the end of the run. It comes out of the panel, through a smoke, through 8 pulls, and then to a final smoke. Are you suggesting a place a meter on either side of the EOL resistor at the last smoke and then pull a station between that end smoke and the panel and see if it goes to zero?
Can I do this testing with the alarm powered off or does it need to be powered in and in operation? If it needs to be powered on can I simply pull the wires out for the sirens?
With the panel off, I followed your advice and tested right at the zone terminals on the panel. I placed my meter to the resistance function, red lead on the input 1 + post and black lead on the input 1 - post.
Reading was 4.66, close enough to 4.7 I presume. I then went and pulled my pull station… one smoke and six pulls down the line. I measured again using the same process… 4.66 again.
Of course, the empty circuit board position for input 2 tests at 0 and in testing the signal 2 (with the EOL on the board) I get 4.65 so I am reasonably sure I am testing correctly. What would cause the resistance to be the same, unaffected by my pull station?
The resistors are either 5% (gold band) or 10% (silver band) tolerance. So your readings are close enough.
If a pulled station does not drop the ohmmeter to zero or very close, either the switch in the station is not closing (bad switch) or it is not connected to the circuit. There could have been a open circuit trouble in the past and someone just added another resistor instead of troubleshooting and making a proper repair.
Thanks for the reply. The switch I am testing is 6 pull stations down the line of pull stations, was just testing this one as I had easy access to it in my own unit. Only switch that works is the first one, which has only a smoke between it and the panel. When I tested switch two, it didn’t work… so I guess it stands to reason that my switch 6 doesn’t work.
Sounds like the next logical step is to pull off the first working pull station and the next pull station that does not work and verify the wiring is in place. Is it possible to for switch to go bad? Would this prevent the rest down the line from not working? If there is just the right amount of resistance, 4.66 it sounds like there may be a rogue EOL somewhere? Or is there any other possibilities?
Feel like we are narrowing down the possibilities.
No. One station with a switch not making contact will not prevent others from working (shorting the loop).
It is sounding like someone “fixed” an open circuit trouble by adding another resistor someplace. Only way to find the problem and fix it is to follow the wire. Find the last working device (pull or smoke) and go from there.
it REALLY sounds like you’ve got a EOL somewhere in the middle of the line, probably between device 1 and device 2. make sure each device doesn’t have it’s own EOL somehow.
4.66 is well within the tolerance. your meter isn’t perfect, the resister isn’t perfect, the devices and wire add resistance, etc…
Ok… I’m reading this at the end of a long week in which nothing went smoothly, so I could be misunderstanding everything. If I sound like a twit here, let me know.
When you took a readingof the resistance on Sig1 & Sig2, they both came up as just under 4.7k, irregardless of the pull station? That sounds right, as these should be your bell loops. If that’s the case, you can pull the red wire & you can test things without ringing bells. Assuming I’m reading your pix right.
The Input1 loop should be your smokes & pulls, based on your description. What’s the resistance of this loop? It should be about 4.7k, dropping close to 0 when a manual station is pulled.
My concern after reading through this thread is that you don’t really seem to understand how a fire alarm system works or basic electrical troubleshooting? Especially because this appears to be a live system in an occupied building. And if you cannot gain access to the different areas of the building to correctly test each of the devices, are you even authorized to work on this panel? Most building owners have the right to access tenant spaces for emergency repairs or simply give 24/48 hours notice of such access.
Sorry to be so blunt but this is life safety we are talking about here. With the state of this panel having 75% of the initiating devices inoperative, this system should be tagged as a major deficiency, reported to the local AHJ, and would require immediate service or the building could not be legally occupied. Not to mention, if you are not the system owner, any work or alterations you do to this system are in violation of NFPA 72 Section 14.2.2 and you should be notifying the system owner according to NFPA 72 Section 10.19. In most jurisdictions, tampering with life safety equipment is a criminal offense. If this was a hobby system or if you were fooling around with a couple of pull station in your basement, I could justify trying to help you out. But if you are indeed the owner of the system and this problem is beyond your comprehension, you really need to stop what you are doing and call a professionally and licensed company to have this system repaired immediately. Even trying to fix this system yourself, if you don’t know how to connect up manual pull stations to ensure proper circuit supervision , you are opening yourself up to huge liabilities.
