MBTA Red Line - Alewife - Cambridge, MA
Panel: Gamewell-FCI E3 (most likely). There’s an LCD-SLP annunciator at the entrance.
Went to a medical center I haven’t been to before here in Brockton MA to get hardened earwax cleaned out of my ears (I know, it’s gross, but my ears feel so much better now!) The building was built in 2004, and still has its’ original fire alarm system intact. The panel is a single-bay Notifier NFS-640, located right in the main lobby. The alarm signals are System Sensor SpectrAlert “Classic” horn/strobes (probably P1224MCs), the pull stations are NBG-12LXs (with a plain “NOTIFIER” logo on them, no “Fire Systems” or “by Honeywell” underneath) and the smoke detectors are FSP-751s.
Yeah, this was a common setup in the 2000s, but nowadays I don’t see very many Notifier systems with SpectrAlert “Classics” around, especially since several of them have since been replaced with SpectrAlert Advance or L-series horn/strobes!
MBTA Blue/Orange Lines - State Street - Boston, MA
Pull stations: Notifier NBG-12LX’s
MBTA Blue Line - Airport Station - Boston, MA
Pull stations: Notifier BNG-1’s and some NBG-12LX’s
Minneapolis St. Paul International Airport - Terminal 1 - Fort Snelling Unorganized Territory, MN
I’ve mentioned this terminal before, but there’s something new!
Pulls: Honeywell S464G1007’s (some S464A’s might still be present but are being replaced)
I broke from my long-standing tradition by not stating the panel at the beginning this time. That’s because there’s a HUGE surprise.
When the terminal was refurbished and expanded in 1992, a Honeywell FS90 system was installed. This is when the oldest currently-present initiating devices date to. (I don’t know what the signals were. My guess would be Wheelock ET-1080-WS-24’s, as Honeywell often used these.)
Around 2010 or so, the panel was replaced with an EST3 (rebranded by Honeywell as an XLS1000), and the signals were replaced with what they are now.
Over the years, most older initiating devices were replaced.
Now, what’s the surprise?
This - a Notifier annunciator cabinet, rebranded by Honeywell.
The EST3 is still active for now.
Huh, interesting (the Honeywell-branded cabinets). Never seen an EST3 with that design either (I also see it has a trouble for some reason).
Why does the first Stopper II have tape on the front?
Those “8-inch Wheelock speaker/strobes” you speak of might be S8s: Speaker strobes | Wheelock S8 | Eaton
Like many EST systems, this one is more or less always in trouble. (Also, it’s being uninstalled.)
The cabinet is an annunciator with a remote paging microphone.
No idea as to why there’s tape on the Stopper. (Maybe the entire Stopper was taped over while the pull wasn’t active yet? Or the tape was used to hold a “NOT IN USE” sign while the pull wasn’t active yet?)
You’re correct about the 8-inch speaker/strobes.
Oh, alright (wouldn’t know about the trouble part though, I’m sure there are a fair amount of Edwards/EST systems that don’t commonly have troubles however).
Oh.
Yeah, that’s all I can guess about the tape on the Stopper too (though why anyone hasn’t removed/didn’t remove it is beyond me).
Ah, I thought so.
They probably tried to remove the tape once the pull was active, but the tape ripped.
International Plaza & Bay Street has probably a Gamewell or Notifier system with a whole mix of System Sensor SpectrAlert Classic, Advance and L-Series horn/strobes and strobes. A mix of older and newer Notifier or Gamewell/FCI smokes appear present as well. Unsure about pulls. Dillard’s has ceiling mounted SpectrAlert Classics with 2400 series smokes. Not sure about pulls. Neiman Marcus has Wheelock NSs. Nordstrom has an addressable Silent Knight System with ceiling mounted L-Series speaker/strobes, strobes, and Silent Knight rebranded BG-12 pulls. Addressable Silent Knight Smokes as well.
Galleria Mall - Edina, MN
Pulls: None (sigh…)
Detectors: System Sensor i3’s at an elevator
Baker Building - Minneapolis, MN
Pulls: Siemens HMS-S’
Hilton - Minneapolis, MN
Pulls: Notifier NBG-12LX’s
Leamington Municipal Parking Garage & Transit Center - Minneapolis, MN
Pulls: Simplex 4251-20’s
Forum 900-920 - Minneapolis, MN
Pulls: None (sigh…)
Detectors: Notifier FSP-751’s, FSP-851’s, and FSP-951’s
121 South 8th - Minneapolis, MN
Pulls: None (sigh…)
Detectors: FSP-851’s
Out of curiosity, why “(sigh)” when you find a building with no pull stations?
Obviously because most of us expect to find pull stations in buildings, especially since they should have them.
No… if a building is fully sprinklered then only one pull station is required (see IBC 2018 907.2), and it may be in a place where you cannot see it, like a riser room or electrical room where the panel sits. Yeah, it’s cool to see pull stations but the lack of them does not immediately raise red flags for me.
That regulation is ridiculous to me, especially since up until now it was basically standard to put a normal amount of pull stations in every building (pretty much all of which are sprinklered nowdays). I still say having an abundant manual means of activating the fire alarm is important, especially if the fire’s well out of control by the time a sprinkler head bursts & trips the alarm (an absurd scenario but one that could very well happen).
It has been a part of IBC for several years, because these days the focus of a fire alarm system is gravitating more and more toward automatic activation. Usually, but admittedly not always, an automatic detector will pick up the signatures of a fire quicker than a human, as a human must first react with their own senses, then make the decision to get up and pull the alarm. Usually by that time, a smoke detector has responded. Electricity travels at the speed of light, after all. Fire alarms have progressed a long way since the days of “break glass, ring bell”.
Manual pull stations sometimes get installed near most exits as either a failsafe, if an AHJ, customer, or any combination of the two want to see more pull stations, or as a holdover from before this was in IBC. This has been in place since at least 2009, but the 2007 edition of the IBC also has provisions to completely remove the requirement of pull stations for places like assembly occupancies.
Unfortunately there is no single right answer for any of this, and while both a system in an assembly occupancy with a sprinkler system and no pull station meets the code just as much as one with a sprinkler system and a hundred pull stations, what option will you most likely get your customer to agree on?
From an enthusiast perspective- I agree. Pull stations look nice in buildings. From a code perspective- I don’t see anything wrong. From a customer’s perspective- we can save possibly thousands of dollars in parts and labor if we nix the pull stations! From a designer’s perspective- Less clutter on the drawing. From an installer’s perspective- fewer devices they have to program. You have to take all of that into consideration.
I agree with Robert fully.
From an outside prospective I can see more benefits of removing public facing pull stations in highly trafficked areas, cutting off the ability to cause false alarms which could potentially save business sale costs and remove the potential of having to evacuate a big assembly which could cause injuries from panic itself. At this point detection devices have surpassed the requirement for human intervention from centuries of trial and error, there are so many fail safes already in place nowadays I assume.
Maybe in the future there will be other new sensor gadgets being added because of the offset in costs associated with removing the pull stations, thankfully they are updating the code to work with the times somewhat.
In the argument of fire being able to destroy more property before it can be sensed is just out of whack, buildings are built now with fire containment in mind such as fire doors and stuff in the walls to contain. I have full trust in today’s technology and there should be no reason not to embrace the continued innovation in life safety equipment.
My opinion is simple - “Get out of jail free” cards don’t belong in fire safety. In many fires, high amounts of smoke and toxic gases can accumulate before heat reaches a sprinkler.
A major reason behind my opinion is because, over the course of my school career, there were two fires. Both were in buildings that are fully sprinklered and also have full smoke detection coverage - and one also has heat detection coverage. Despite this, in both instances, the alarm was triggered by a pull station. No sprinkler ever activated in both incidents. Throughout my school career, there were also several false alarms - which were mainly caused by smoke detectors.
Malicious activations are not the primary cause of false alarms.
Nonetheless, there are options to prevent false alarms from pull stations without interfering with legitimate ones.
Option A: Put up signage. Consider adding a reference to applicable law to the sign (e.g. for Minnesota, “MN Stat. 609.686”) for an even more effective deterrent.
As @Joseph said in another thread, we take things a bit too seriously…
I’ll make a more on-topic post soon.
MBTA Red and Silver Lines - South Station - Boston, MA
Panel: Notifier NFS-3030 or NFS2-3030 (there’s an LCD-160, a graphic annunicator, and a fan control cabinet outside the panel room and another LCD-160 in the ticket office)
This (along with North Station, and State) is one of the few MBTA subway stations that use horn/strobes despite having Notifier systems - the other MBTA subway stations with Notifier systems have speaker/strobes. (this includes Assembly, Downtown Crossing, Science Park, and the commuter rail stations of Lansdowne and Boston Landing)
Before the mid-2000’s, MBTA subway stations mainly used Gamewell or FCI systems, with Wheelock AS or MT horn/strobes - and before that, Faraday horns on SAE strobe plates.
I am all for what you say randomperson, pull stations are not done yet. They are still an important part of any fire alarm system. And yes, there should be no such things as “exceptions” when it comes to anything life safety, as such exceptions could get people killed.
Why heat detectors & not smoke detectors?
