In a subway station, especially one that opened over a century ago, movement of trains could stir up enough dust to cause problems (including false alarms) if smoke detectors were used.
Ah, I see, makes sense.
Here’s an interesting one. I was looking up some random houses in the GTA area when I came across one with an old Electro Vox System!! Here is a screenshot of the panel from the ad. If I can find it again, I will get a pic of the pull and bell. The House had pull stations and a 6" Electro Vox Bell, and some detectors!
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Ooh, nice! Wish you could salvage all the components out of it. Try to get some photos of the detectors too.
Not sure why this thread is so interesting, but it’s really is cool to see what products are being used across America and what kind of hidden gems are in older houses and buildings. If I can remember to do so, I’ll try to get some photos from some of the jobs I do.
Mhm, definitely do so.
If you read IBC alone there are tons of exceptions; they’re all over the place in both the I-codes and NFPA. I’ve done jobs where several codes overlap, contradict each other, and worst of all do not address the spirit of the problem we are trying to solve in the first place. It gets even more confusing when you have to juggle with the I-codes (IFC, IBC, IEBC, etc.), NFPA codes, UFC codes (these are mostly used for military and USDoD jobs), local ordinances, you name it. This is where your friendly neighborhood fire protection engineer comes in, who is separate from the designer and separate from the installer.
Part of the reason why the fire protection engineer even has a job in the first place is first to make sense of all these codes, find out what fits the job we are doing, what is applicable, what is possible and practical given the scope of work and the budget of the job, and yes, what exceptions can apply and why can we take them. Then, with that work done, the designer can draw in sprinkler heads or fire alarm components and we look over it and make commentary or even edits ourselves. Then, when the job is done, the engineer of record literally stamps and signs the drawing with their seal and signature to certify that they carefully reviewed the plans, approved them, and take responsibility if things go south.
This isn’t to say that the exceptions in the code somehow diminish the overall level of safety from a given system. They are there as an option to simplify the design in most respects. For instance, the above mentioned omission of all but one, or even all pull stations completely, comes with the thinking that in most use cases, an automatic means of detection whether it is a smoke or heat detector, or a sprinkler head, will detect the fire soon enough that occupants will have time to escape. This ties into a more advanced fire protection concept called ASET and RSET which is far beyond the scope of this forum, but all this really boils down to is that if a system is properly designed and installed, this automatic method of detection will initiate evacuation quickly enough so that everyone gets out safely. It is important to remember that money does not grow on trees, and if an engineer overdesigns a system, it will go over budget and will either not be approved in the first place, or it will be installed cheaply so as to recoup the losses sustained by an overkill system. A good engineer is an expert at cramming in everything that is needed and leaving out what is not needed to where the system is on or even under the budget provided to them.
Some of the most important code exceptions to know about are about allowable building heights and areas. In this section of code, it quite literally dictates how big and tall your building will be depending on its occupancy classifications and type of construction. If you take some of the exceptions into account, you can actually make your building bigger which keeps the architects happy, without sacrificing on your level of protection.
I say all of this not to make myself sound smart, but because I know that there are veterans of this industry who I regularly work with who have as much experience in this field as I have been alive on this earth, so I choose to make myself an information sponge.
How large is that house? Just curious…
It’s part of a row series style housing. But from what I can see its 4 floors and has multiple units. Here are some more pics.
Besides these, there are also some newer heats and mini horns in other pics.
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I take it that the first pull station is missing its’ sticker given the second one isn’t.
That bumpy object by the bell; is that a doorbell?
Do you know if you (will) have the chance or not to save all these devices?
Overall neat I must say. Do share more pictures if you want.
K, I mustered some photos from way back.
Last Year, I put in a sprinkler monitor. I can’t remember which model Silent-Knight it was, but this was mine. Storage unit lot.
Publix. For the longest time these said ADT, but I suppose they upgraded their panel as part of a contract, so now they’re Tyco branded System Sensor pulls
University Dormitory Complex, can’t say where. Was doing a fire inspection and came across this elaborate SIEMENS XLS with what I’m guessing are FP-11s and OH-121S. The pull stations were HMS-Ss and a single HMS-D
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Library. They have ADT 5060-S pull stations. Was adding two speaker strobes and a single strobe. Wheelock E70 series, to match what they had already. The panel was an ADT Unimode 10. Can’t show the front of the Fire-Lite Voice Evac can, since the inspection report was visible in that photo and is revealing. I can say that it was made in the same era for sure though
And another one of my sprinkler monitors. In a town center shell Notifier NFX-50
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Yeah, I’ve been to many Publixes with ADT-rebranded BG-12s (Tyco-rebranded ones seem to be rare though).
Is it really necessary to have two smoke detectors that close to each other?
Is that duct detector missing its’ cover or had you taken it off when you took that picture?
What’s that detector doing covered up?
Funnily enough, I just got the original ESL version of the 5060-S very recently.
Never seen a Fire-Lite voice evac panel like that one. You can always blur, pixelate, or otherwise obscure the lettering on the inspection report, allowing you to post the photo (what about the label though, at least if you took a photo of it).
Sprinkler monitors? Are you referring to a fire alarm panel that’s in the sole service of monitoring a sprinkler system, & nothing else?
All great photos!
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Yeah I believe so, and no definitely not. I don’t even live there, I found the ad by searching up something else on google lol. Plus it looks like a working system, as there is exit signs and emergency lights as well.
I think NFPA 72 only talks about minimum/maximum spacing requirements, but if the fire marshal walked that laundry room and said slap some more in there, then the change order had to be put in. Siemens, as in the local alarm company chapter in Jacksonville, FL, put this system in these dorms. The Siemens tech that was there fixing other things was a chain-smoker. I don’t know what Siemens is doing to that poor dude to be that stressed out all the time. Yeah, and I was resetting a duct detector during a fire inspection at a hospital. Blast it, then twist the head off, replace, then re-install cover.
I know very few clients that pay the likes of Johnson Controls or Siemens specifically to put in a fire alarm system. In hospitals and colleges, it’s common in my area to have Johnson put in automation controls for HVAC equipment. Dorm rooms, detectors get covered up, sprinkler heads double as coat hangers. These kids are either vaping or experimenting with CBD products, so these smokes tend to either be tampered, yellowed, or dirtied to the point the panel acknowledges specific detectors as dirty.
Sorry Carson, I’m too lazy to edit smartphone photos. Yes, by code these things need a smoke above the panel, a manual call point, an AV device, and some sort of LCD display. Beyond that, it really is there just to let the Fire Dept. know if this thing’s flowing water or not. I forget where, but someone on the internet made a profound statement about fire alarm control panels being hooked up to things and strapped out and used to notify other conditions, so much so, that it begs the question “when does it stop being a fire alarm system…?”
My favorite is when these panels are stored in the storage closets of dentists offices. Then it’s like “Good morning dental people! Show me where the fire alarm panel is!”. “Uh, does that mean we all have to leave? Can you put that off 'til later?”. “No, it’s not a fire alarm drill, it’s just a sprinkler monitor”. “Yeah, well, I’ve got twenty patients right now, can we put off the test until tomorrow?” "Uh… I’m here to figure out a timer set fault… there is no testing and I don’t think I even see strobes in this office, why are we so worried?. “Please, no fire alarms, just, no no no no no…”
I’m serious, I’m glad that most sprinkler monitors are put in a riser room by itself, I hate having to explain to those types of clients that think that every fire inspection or service call is like an elementary school fire drill. First off, no testing, this is a service call. Second, during fire inspections I only make noise for as long as it takes me to brisk walk/jog around the building, so like no more than five minutes tops.
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Ah, alright.
Idiots…(the kids you described, not only for completely disregarding the intended purpose of fire protection equipment but also ruining their lives by vaping & the like)
“Manual call point”? I think you’re thinking of “manual pull station” instead (since MCPs are pretty much nonexistent in North America).
Chances are if I were in that same situation I’d eventually get fed up with their reluctance & probably say something along the lines of “Stop fooling around & let me get to work, show me where the dang panel is!”. Anything life safety should always supersede everything else (since otherwise people could die).
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Yeah, but for some reason some adults think they’re the most important thing on earth and that the world revolves around them. No I just described probably like my first dentist office. Nowadays I have learned to be very stately and firm and concise when talking to people about inspections “We are going to make noise now. 2 minutes, will be in and out”.
This wasn’t an inspection though so I wasn’t expecting to have to say all that. That said, I’ve learned to be very stately and firm with clients whenever they start complaining like that. Nah, most people forgot what the fire alarm is, and it’s not supposed to be the butt end of a joke but historically that’s what it ended up being. Like us techs, and the fire Marshal are the only people that take this thing seriously anymore.
Yeah, that’s most people nowdays sadly.
Shame that that’s the case (that those people are pretty much the only ones who actually take fire protection seriously).
Another Library. Another ADT Unimode 10 Panel with ADT 5060-S pulls and Spectralert Classics galore. Wheelock speakers.
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