I was goofing around with my Gentex Commander 4 then I discovered that if I disconnect Power and quickly apply it again it will do a Fast Whoop Tone for Half a Second then did Code 3 normally.
Here is the Video of my Commander 4 doing the Fast Whoop Tone.
Any Idea why it does that?
I’m thinking that the Commander 4 probably is perfectly capable of whoop (and probably chime) and even has it loaded onto its ROM chip, but it isn’t wired with the circuitry to trigger the tone through the DIP-switches. They probably did this as a last minute cost-cutting attempt/“rushing to get the device in production” move. Im thinking that something here is tricking it into thinking that it is set to the whoop tone for a split second.
Do you have a Commander 3? If you do this same thing with it while set to the same settings what happens?
I do have a Commander 3. I think I should give it a try to see if it will do that also.
Also I was thinking the same thing that the Commander 4 probably had the Chime and Whoop Tone during development but was dropped.
Seriously? No idea why Gentex would do that: I don’t believe I’ve ever known them to skimp on quality. They seriously didn’t have the time to sit down & finish that properly? (especially since the Commander 3’s circuitry only probably needed very slight changes to work for the Commander 4)
… does it really need it? In my experience I’ve heard precisely zero Gentex alarms set to the whoop tone in actual buildings. Most installers set it on Code 3 horn because they know it’ll pass inspection that way. And it’ll provide the required temporal-3 pattern required by NFPA 72 section 18.4.2.
Since the Commander series can serve as a general signaling alarm, all the non-horn and chime signals are typically relegated to that. Like a grocery store theft sensor that’ll use the whoop tone. Since those things are almost never ceiling mounted there’s no real reason to include it on the ceiling version.
Still though: why not include them just in case a ceiling-mounted general signaling alarm is required for a particular setup? It’s always a good idea to have a product for every application, is it not?
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It’s always a good idea to have a product for every application, is it not?
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Gentex does offer a General Signaling version of the Commander 4 with an Amber, Blue, Red, or Green Strobe. Idk if it has a Chime or Whoop Tone.
[quote=“aerhardt, post:2, topic:14274”]
Do you have a Commander 3? If you do this same thing with it while set to the same settings what happens?
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I just tried the glitch on my Commander 3 and all it did was Flash the Strobe for a few seconds then the Horn would go off.
They do, & yet said version does not have whoop, a tone arguably ideal for an application like general signaling/mass notification, which means that all you have is continuous horn or continuous 2400Hz if you can’t use temporal 3 (which is exclusively for evacuation), which don’t really have the same attention-getting sound & distinctiveness as a whoop tone.
I’m not saying for certain that they did that, it’s just a guess. It also doesn’t mean that they skimp on quality either. I would still say that Gentex has the most reliable and highest quality products in the industry.
Regardless of why they did it, it was definitely an odd decision to not include the extra tones on the Commander 4 (and to not have a ceiling mounted device in the first place).
Yeah, I can agree to that, but I still think it’s a shame that they didn’t bother including those two tones on the Commander 4 for whatever reason & thus meaning I can’t truly call their Commander-series as a whole the best notification appliance line ever made (which it technically still is if you ask me, just besides the Commander 4 missing chime & whoop).
Yeah: I’ll never understand why their engineers that designed it were apparently incapable of doing so.
Its so specialized of an application that it almost isn’t worth the sunk cost to manufacture a device for it. If a ceiling-mounted signal that plays a whoop tone is truly needed (in the context of fire alarm, almost never; in the context of general signaling, once in a blue moon on Friday the 13th when all the planets are aligned), they’ll just as soon mount a wall-mount unit on the ceiling and go with that. For general signaling it doesn’t really matter that they’re using a wall mount device on a ceiling since it isn’t being used as a life safety device.
You aren’t exactly a product design engineer yourself so you are probably no more qualified than one who actually is and probably knows a lot more about what is needed in a general signaling alarm.
Hell, I’ve seen grocery store theft sensors use green-strobe white Commander 3s set to temporal chime just today in fact. Not at all how I’d set it up but that’s not my discipline nor my wheel house.
While that’s unfortunately a common sight, it’s not up to code. According to the codes, the temporal 3 pattern is only to be used for fire evacuations- nothing else.
I have to agree with that. Gentex Alarms have the best quality compared to the Xenon Alarms they competed with. All Current Gentex Alarms use Metal Mounting Plates compared to the Flimsy L Series Mounting Plates. Gentex’s Alarms even have better quality than some of the Current LED Alarms.
I Guess that comes to show that Products that are built in Michigan are very Reliable.
I believe Temporal 3 Chime Isn’t against code to use as a security Tone. The Kroger I go to has Commander 3’s with Green Strobes set to T3 Chime. Chime Tones aren’t intended to be used as an Evacuation Tone unless it’s in a Hospital or areas where a Loud Horn wouldn’t be necessary.
I think you can argue it either way but the intent of 18.4.2.1 is to produce the ANSI standard temporal 3 for fire only, regardless of whether it’s a bell, a horn, or a chime. These security companies likely set the alarms to Code 3 chime as its the least intrusive sound and is the gentlest on the ears while still being a tone loss prevention is trained to listen for.
My high school used the same setup for the rollup cage doors in the cafeteria. Not sure what other tone they’re supposed to use if not that. Maybe there should be a “slow march time chime” tone that just rings once every half second.
The “continuous chime” setting on the Commander 3 would be a better option, as it’s the same chime, but repeated every second rather than in the temporal 3 pattern.
I agree with this. Gentex definitely has the best quality out there. They’re also pretty underrated compared to the other brands.