Home Fire panel design help

Fire Alarm Help
1

Hi all,

I hope I’m posting in the right forum…apologies if not.

I’m a low voltage tech by trade, and while most of my recent work is in networking, access control, phone systems, and CCTV, I used to do quite a bit with Radionics and the Ademco/Honeywell series panels years back.

I’m looking to install a dedicated fire panel in my own home, but I’m a bit surprised by the pricing compared to standard alarm systems. Currently, I’m running a Vista 20IP with a combination of hardwired and wireless devices (fire) specifically:

  • 6 hardwired smoke/heat combo detectors (2-conductor)
  • 7 wireless smoke detectors
  • Planning to use a voice evacuation module (voice evac is already installed in my home)

What I’d really like is a basic annunciator setup with the ability to support both wired and wireless devices, and ideally allow some level of addressability so I can pinpoint the zone or detector that’s going off. I don’t need anything over the topjust something solid, reliable, and budget-conscious. I’m fairly confident I can install and program the system myself, but I’d really appreciate recommendations on panels or brands that would allow me to do this without completely breaking the bank.

Also, one technical question…can horn and strobe devices run on the same trunk line? Or do I need to run them separately? I’ve already pulled wire for both scenarios so it’s not a huge issue either way, but would love to streamline it if possible.

Thanks in advance for any help or insight. I’d be most grateful for any suggestions, especially from folks who’ve done similar setups or retrofits in residential environments.

Best,

2

Do you simply want a prerecorded voice message out of your sirens, or are you looking for something more sophisticated than that? (i.e. zoned messaging and so on)

Also, can I presume these are 2WTA-Bs from the model of your existing panel?

As to the wireless side, the main problem is that security wireless protocols (such as what your existing wireless smoke detectors speak) are pretty much exclusive to the security field – wireless UL864 fire alarm functionality either requires a panel that’s a security/fire hybrid, a fire panel based on a security panel (Napco Firewolf, DMP XF6), or a Honeywell panel that talks SWIFT, which is the only fire-dedicated wireless protocol out there.

That said, is replacing the existing wireless detectors, either with different wireless detectors or wired detectors, in the cards?

3

Yes, they are. I dont need a full mic separated zone messages and evac. just a delineation between Carbon & fire or heat sensor. Something that can be connected to ethernet as well. Thanks so much!

4

I could run wired to some of them but not all. But this would be a good start. I dont mind runnign 2 systems. just want something better with reliability.

5

I would have suggested a Vista-32FB or 128FB (easier takeover) for the combo panel route given that it’d be taking over from a Vista-20 and V-Plex is indeed addressable, just not analog-addressable, but the requirement for Ethernet rules that out, leaving me with the other option I was thinking of, a Bosch/Keenfinity B8512G.

These panels can use a D125B powered loop interface to support the 2WTA-B, can be ordered with a built-in Ethernet interface, and can support RADION or Inovonics wireless (albeit not Honeywell) with the appropriate option cards. That said, I’m not sure just how one wires up the Bosch/Keenfinity panels to do addressable (POPIT) or if POPIT smokes are a thing.

The other downside of these combo panels is that they run at 12VDC, which while fine for a burglary siren driver, rules out a lot of the other fun notification appliances one can use (like low frequency horns, or strobes bright enough for sleeping area use). Speaking of the siren driver, I’d go with an ELK-110 if you don’t mind canned voice or an ELK-124 if you want to record your own messages.

Were you wanting something more sophisticated, sadly, we’d have to jump all the way to an Eaton/Wheelock SAFEPATH SP40S paired with a small addressable fire panel, such as a Potter AFC-50. (The SigCom VECP-25 is cheaper, but doesn’t ship with a CO message by default and doesn’t provide a documented function for recording your own messages.)

It depends! If you’re only notifying for a single condition, you can run most hornstrobes on a single NAC, as long as you have the appropriate sync module. Where this gets complicated, though, is when you have a situation like yours where multiple distinct tones (T3 and T4 at a minimum) are needed.

Eaton/Wheelock and Gentex sync protocols have T3/T4 selection functionality built into the sync modules (and I believe there’s hacky ways to do it in Edwards-land, too) but System Sensor hasn’t yet exposed any functionality of that sort, and panels may or may not support T3/T4 in their built-in sync generators, which means that 2-wire multiple-tone operation may not always be possible, and is also ruled out if you need to support cadences/codings beyond T3 and T4, such as using marchtime for fuel gas alarms, or Canadian alert coding in 2-stage systems.

6

First and foremost thanks so much for your help. I was initially thinking about the Silent Knight, since it has wireless (I think). Also has ethernet monitoring. Not sure if I would have to change my detectors (not a problem).

I’m not against the vista idea either. I do currently have the elk. I have a big family and would like to be able to silence the horns but still run the strobes. If that is possible? I wouldnt hate to integrate it all. As long as I could address each detector. As I would still like to add 3-4 more.

TBH, since the invent of AI in cameras, there is really no need for alarm in my house. Very rarely is no one ever home. I still have network monitoring and cell backup WAN.

7

As long as you have outputs to run them separately or a sync module that supports silencing, that’ll be possible, yes.

8

Could this be done on the vista you had described?

9

You’d have to use a relay to trip the siren driver instead of using one of the NACs, but yes, you could do it on a Vista-32FB or 128FB paired with the appropriate sync module and 12V notification appliances.

10

Could I use a SS Nac with a power supply/booster?

Would Bell 1 & Bell 2 outputs (Class B, 10-14 V DC, 1.7 A each) One NAC will become the Horn Control line, the other the Strobe Power line,System Sensor MDL3 sync module

24 V booster, Honeywell PS-24 or HPF-24 …SpectrAlert Advance horn-strobes

11
  1. the Ademco PS-24 is long discontinued (and Honeywell calls lots of other stuff “PS-24”), but it’d work if were able to get your paws on one
  2. the HPF-24 is rather costly compared to say an AL602ULADA, as far as proper NAC extenders go at least
  3. the SAA hornstrobes can run directly on 12V, but are limited to 15 or 15/75cd when doing so.