How often is it that buildings usually replace fire alarm systems?
Unless they absolutely have to (which is pretty rare) they won’t. The most they’ll usually do is replace the panel or a few signals if they go bad. Completely gutting a FA system and replacing every single device is very, very expensive, so places that can do it will save up for a replacement for a few years.
For instance, recently in the middle school I went to for sixth grade (sometime between my junior and senior year), they completely replaced the dying Simplex system piece-by-piece. While I was there, they replaced the aging 4002 with an EST-3. The 90s addition already added several newer Simplex devices and rectangular 4903 electromechanical horn-strobes. Eventually, every device was replaced with an EST Signature device, and all the signals were replaced with Mega Drive signals.
I’d imagine this cost the district several grand, so it was probably penciled in the budget as early as when I was in middle school.
usually when they can no longer get parts for their current system.
recommended is every ten years but realistically every 15-20 probably. some put it off longer, really depends on the building type and owner.
lots of fire alarm manufacturers have upgrade paths to slowly replace the old system with a new one.
A lot of that decision results from the local code and the AHJ. I many cases if the building is never remodeled or modified the system that was installed when it was built can remain as long as it functions. I know of old buildings in my area that still rely on the IBM 4245 originally installed which are now 58+ years old. A little box with two relays, two large resistors, and a few switches.
Another factor is if something is changed is it required to bring the building up to current code. The AHJ in our large metropolitan area split the system into thirds, the panel, the devices, and the wiring. Touch one third and the system can remain as is. Touch two and the system has to come up to current code. A panel can be replaced on a service permit and the rest of the system can remain as is. Replace the panel and devices and the system has to be upgraded to current code. The cost difference can be enormous.
Backwards compatible systems really help customers. A 2001 or 2120 of any age can be upgraded to 4100ES miniplex or network without changing any devices, wiring, or even equipment boxes. There are adapter kits that allow the new equipment to go into an existing box. Great for those boxes with two dozen conduit entries or are flush mounted in a fancy decorative wall.
This helps on budgeting too, replace the panel and reuse the existing field devices now, and in 5 years go in and replace all the field devices. Much easier for the owner to swallow then forcing them to do it all at once and add to the system in the process to bring it up to code.
Retired STR-SG, do you know if/where the code allows the service replacement? Or is that purely up to the AHJ? We do the same thing all the time here, but someone questioned if there’s any codes that actually allow that since it usually bypasses the requirement to bring the system up to current code. Our AHJ’s sign off on it too, just curious what guidelines they’re following or if it’s just a case of generally accepted practice.
As far as I know it is local AHJ set policy. If the panel is old and failing it gives the building owner a way to get a working panel installed without breaking the bank. The FD would rather have a system that works correctly even if it was installed under an older code than one with a panel that is down half the time. It also gives the option of alarm verification, supervisory duct detectors, and other newer features that reduce nuisance alarm runs.
Are you SimplexTech on YouTube? I’m just wondering because I saw a video of that panel you’re talking about on that channel.
No, not me.
I searched for Simplex Tech on YouTube and watched some of the videos. That is not the same Simplex as the fire alarm company (officially Simplex Time Recorder Company). It is not the same equipment.
There are a number of companies using the name “Simplex”. We used to receive service calls about Simplex generator monitor panels. The office staff had to explain that the company that made the generator monitor is a different Simplex that we are. I saw those little black panels in many places but I can’t find a picture of one.
A lot of larger buildings in New York have been doing full upgrades over the last 5-10 years due to the EVAC requirement. I don’t know how it is elsewhere, but buildings over a certain square footage need EVAC when built or modified. Even new Walmarts here need EVAC, as does every mall/large gathering place and public buildings on most university campuses. I did my undergrad at SUNY Buffalo and they’re in the middle of doing full upgrades to almost every building. Typically, buildings are getting an EST3 with Genesis speaker/strobes. Just about everything that isn’t solely an administration building is getting EVAC.
Mega Drive? You had me confused for a second :lol:
That’s what they did at the school I went to for kindergarten, but in that case, the old Simplex fire alarm system was failing, and they had to replace it during last year’s February vacation; what they did was install a new panel (probably some cheap Fire-Lite model) and replace all the old alarms (mostly 4051+4050-80 horn/lights) with SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobes, but they kept the existing pull stations and detectors as-is; they needed to get it quickly done before school resumed so they could have a working fire alarm system again.
With that said, I’ve seen fire alarm systems get replaced if the old one is failing, or if the building is renovated in some way. There are also a few service companies I’ve noticed that will replace the system if they don’t like the company’s system being used and/or if it’s not up-to-date. They were often like that at my college. Initially, they were upgrading fire alarm systems so they could be ADA-compliant (i.e. replacing old horn/lights with new horn/strobes, ADA-level pull stations replacing any installed up too high, etc.), along with replacing many of the old mechanical heat sensors with smoke detectors. But then starting around 6 years ago, they seemed bent on replacing all the non-Honeywell fire alarm systems on the campus with new Notifier systems. Several of these buildings already had Space Age VA4 horn/strobes, and then they went and replaced those (three of the buildings had them replaced with SpectrAlert Advances, and another three had them replaced with Wheelock Exceeders), probably because the VA4 isn’t manufactured anymore and isn’t as “universal” as the SpectrAlert Advance or Wheelock Exceeder.
The three “Exceeder” buildings had full fire alarm upgrades as well, as they had some renovations and new RTU units installed on the roofs; they swapped out their 2-zone conventional systems with addressable Notifier systems rebranded by Johnson Controls, and they just installed all the new devices right where the old ones were, though a couple renovated rooms in one building had a new alarm installed in each.
in a campus situation they’re probably all networked back to a command center somewhere, and only notifier panels probably work on that system. that’s going to be their main motivation for getting the non-honeywell panels out.
I’m more familiar with the Sega Genesis.
It’s… it’s the same system.
I think here in Canada, High rise/Larger buildings are required to have a two stage system, which in most cases, if it’s a new or retrofit, are voice evacuation.
The only places I’ve seen that has ‘replaced’ their fire alarm systems are schools. By replaced, I mean install a new panel, new NAs and leave everything else. Technically they didn’t even have to replace them, the only reason so many systems were replaced was because the government went around and said the systems were obsolete. The school with the oldest system in my city is my former high school, with the 6500. The only reason that hasn’t been replaced is because they are going to build a new school to replace the old one in 2017-2019.
One of my schools had a very odd replacement schedule. They replaced the original system with a Radionics system sometime in the early 90s. In 1996, they installed a brand new Simplex system with GX-90s. I wonder why they did this.
I don’t think it could’ve been a major panel failure, because every school in my district had a Radionics system that got replaced with a Simplex system.
Sounds like the district I graduated from. 6 of the 8 buildings had their old systems (mostly Simplex) ripped out in either 2009 or 2010, replaced by EST3s with Genesis horn/strobes. I know my middle school was having problems with its panel (I think a 4100), but there was a new wing that had everything ripped out and replaced less than 5 years after it was built.
I feel like governments are really the only people who replace panels often compared to other stores.