No fire alarms in 20-story building?

Fire Alarm General Discussion
1

I once was at a relatively recent 20-STORY apartment building in NYC. (Liberty Luxe & Liberty Green / 200 North End Avenue, Manhattan, NY 10282 / Milford Management Liberty Green) The lobby and some common areas are available on Google Street View.

This building basically has NO FIRE ALARM SYSTEM. (except for 2 smoke detectors on each floor, to control a set of fire doors)

How could this be? Every other building of this size/height that I’ve been to has a fire alarm system.

Sorry for the all caps, but this is ridiculous.

2

Maybe there’s a tone or message on the PA system?

3
[quote="Chase Reinhardt" post_id=83178 time=1550803139 user_id=3744]

Maybe there’s a tone or message on the PA system?

[/quote]

They don’t have one…

4

It seems like there are many high rise residential buildings in New York lacking alarms. Some friends of mine live in a 12 story building that only has Nest Protects, albeit the building was built in the early 1900s…

5

Clarification: There are smoke alarms in the apartments, too.

6

Coincidentally, I came across a similar situation at the Gershwin Theatre (also in New York City) about ten years ago. It was quite surprising to notice a lack of noticeable fire alarm devices in a theatre featuring nearly 2000 seats.

7

My grandparent’s 36-story condo building in Chicago had a small Cerberus Pyrotronics system that only had heat detectors (granted the building has sprinklers). A few years ago the building was remodeled and a new Notifier ONYX voice-evac system was installed, but the units themselves were grandfathered in and still just have residential smoke detectors.

8
[quote=EpicFireAlarms post_id=83188 time=1550879725 user_id=3400]

My grandparent’s 36-story condo building in Chicago had a small Cerberus Pyrotronics system that only had heat detectors (granted the building has sprinklers). A few years ago the building was remodeled and a new Notifier ONYX voice-evac system was installed, but the units themselves were grandfathered in and still just have residential smoke detectors.

[/quote]

The building I’m talking about was built new in 2010…

9
[quote=randomperson post_id=83179 time=1550805099 user_id=3878] [quote="Chase Reinhardt" post_id=83178 time=1550803139 user_id=3744]

Maybe there’s a tone or message on the PA system?

[/quote]

They don’t have one…

[/quote]

Are you sure? I noticed on the virtual tour speakers mounted in the ceiling. But the building also has a sprinkler system in it as well, I’m assuming the units have heads in them, which could explain the no fire alarm?

10
[quote=EdwardsFan post_id=83191 time=1550900253 user_id=85] [quote=randomperson post_id=83179 time=1550805099 user_id=3878] [quote="Chase Reinhardt" post_id=83178 time=1550803139 user_id=3744]

Maybe there’s a tone or message on the PA system?

[/quote]

They don’t have one…

[/quote]

Are you sure? I noticed on the virtual tour speakers mounted in the ceiling. But the building also has a sprinkler system in it as well, I’m assuming the units have heads in them, which could explain the no fire alarm?

[/quote]

Those speakers are for a sound system. They are only in that area.

11

Does it have a sprinkler system because if it does, it may be the reason why there are no alarms since they have sprinklers.

12
[quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=83194 time=1550954297 user_id=18]

Does it have a sprinkler system because if it does, it may be the reason why there are no alarms since they have sprinklers.

[/quote]

I think that only applies to certain smaller buildings, this is a large 20-story apartment building.

13

Well it may but does it have sprinklers in general though?

14
[quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=83196 time=1550989591 user_id=18]

Well it may but does it have sprinklers in general though?

[/quote]

Yes, it does

15
[quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=83194 time=1550954297 user_id=18]

Does it have a sprinkler system because if it does, it may be the reason why there are no alarms since they have sprinklers.

[/quote]

That appears to definitely be true for a typical early-1900s (or not too long before the 1900s) building to have a sprinkler system and a sprinkler bell only.
(Often with those bells that I like to nickname “flower-petal bells”, for the covers having flower-shaped patterns. (the grille) )

16

Well maybe there is a code that allows for just sprinklers and no fire alarms.

17
[quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=83203 time=1551062798 user_id=18]

Well maybe there is a code that allows for just sprinklers and no fire alarms.

[/quote]

I’ve heard of this for some smaller buildings (e.g. stand-alone McDonalds), but a 20-story apartment building?!

18
[quote=randomperson post_id=83212 time=1551143077 user_id=3878] [quote="Simplex 4051" post_id=83203 time=1551062798 user_id=18]

Well maybe there is a code that allows for just sprinklers and no fire alarms.

[/quote]

I’ve heard of this for some smaller buildings (e.g. stand-alone McDonalds), but a 20-story apartment building?!

[/quote]

I was reading the NYC building code, and this is the best answer I could come up with. From what I understand from this code the building is a R-2 occupancy.

[quote] 907.2.9 Group R-2. A fire alarm system without alarm notification appliances and smoke alarms shall be installed in accordance with this section in Group R-2 occupancies, other than student apartments, where such occupancy satisfies any one of the following conditions:

1.Any dwelling unit is located three or more stories above the lowest level of exit discharge, including dwelling units in penthouses of any area;
2.Any dwelling unit is located more than one story below the highest level of exit discharge of exits serving the dwelling
unit;
or 3.The building contains more than 16 dwelling units.
[/quote]