Notifier AFP-100 question

Fire Alarms
1

I’ve got a Notifier AFP-100 at a local high school - is there any way to disable NAC 1 & 2 through the keypad, similar to disabling a module or detector?

The problem is the terminals for NAC 1 have been damaged, probably from overtighting. It has come to the point that if you just look at the terminal block cross-eyed the panel goes into a NAC 1 trouble! Trying to get the wires back into the terminal strip, tightened back down, and get the panel to clear is a 15 minute task involving giggling the wires and terminal block. Unfortunately, we do not service the panel (we are there for quarterly sprinkler inspections) and the school won’t spend the money until it’s broken beyond repair. Plus I don’t want to be the one to finally break this thing. Last time I was there, I went through the menu and didn’t see anything obvious. Figured before I try to dig up an AFP-100 book somewhere I would ask here first.

2

You can’t disable the NACs on that panel. The best thing you can do is just duct tape the wires so that they dont come loose or replace the panel. Since the AFP-100 is a CLIP panel, you’d have to use an NFS-320.

3

That’s what I was afraid of. I remember looking into it over the summer when I was last out there but kind of forgot about it. I couldn’t find a quick way to disabling the NACs in that panel through the menu. What I was thinking of doing is just extending the wires for NAC 1 into the side of the can and use a floating terminal block to disconnect the bells, instead of fooling with the wires directly on the board itself. But I’m sure there will still be some tension in the wires to cause an issue. It’s one of those things where you can get it to clear, and 30 seconds later without touching anything, it will come back in. I always end up sitting there for a good 5 minutes watching the panel before I leave so I don’t get halfway home and get called back! We are out there every 3 months for a sprinkler quarterly and are required disable the bells. Out of the 26 other buildings, this is the only one I ever have problems with.

Unfortunately, we do not service their fire alarm systems. In fact, the school district themselves does their own (unlicensed) repairs, service, and inspections - and even that is questionable. I’ve found t-taps, EOL resistors paralleled at the panel terminals, and flows/tampers that don’t report just to name a few. Nothing ever gets fixed, even on the sprinkler side, unless it is actually broken to the point it doesn’t work or leaking all over the place. They get away with it somehow!

4

Hmm,
I just looked at a cut sheet of the AFP-100, and it looks very similar to the AFP-200, and are the terminal blocks for the NAC’s “orange” and wires enter on the top of the terminal block? If so, these terminal blocks unplug by wiggling them straight up. Also, “if” it has the same user control capacity of the AFP-200, then yes you can disable NAC’s as they are listed as Nac 1 or Nac 2, or as Bell Circuits “B-01, and B-02”. User PC is 11111,(ones) and program is 00000 (Zero’s).

But, you also mentioned all the faults like “T” taps, and flows not working ect. I personally would not further touch a system like this due to the liability. If it burns down tonight, and or if someone is hurt or worse, you and your company are on the hook! So if your company has already been servicing it, then I would stop, and perform a 100% inspection, find out what’s wrong, make an inspection report and fix the deficiencies at the company expense. That is fix wrong wiring, “T” taps, devices known to be bad before etc., but newly failed devices found during testing, the customer should pay for.

I was a fire alarms div manager for a regional fire detection and suppressions system company for 8 years before coming to the University (that was 15 years ago), and I can tell you that I had to do this very same thing. You do a 100% test and inspection the very first day you walk into the facility, and you present the results to the customer in writing. They then choose to fix it or not, if not, the report is still done and sent to the state fire marshal’s office.

Paul

5

I’m pretty sure the terminal blocks on this panel are soldered directly onto the board. But I know what you are talking about, there are a couple other schools with the 200’s that I just pull the headers off. I can get into the program, codes are still default, have to anyway to disable door control modules. Just not sure how to get to the bell circuits - I know it’s # for the modules and * for the detectors, so what’s the prefix for the bell circuits? Doesn’t give me a prompt on the display for that. I thought I had looked it up one time and didn’t see it in the manual. I was already there on Wednesday and just had to deal with the connections best I could. Looks like someone doubled up the end of the wire to “help” it but still had to fool with it a little until it cleared.

Oh, trust me, I want nothing to do with these fire alarm systems! We only service the sprinkler systems. About as far as we go with these panels is disable the bells and fire doors and verify that the tampers and waterflows report. If something like a flow switch doesn’t report, verify if it’s a waterflow switch issue like a bad paddle or switch (our responsibility) or electrical issue back to the panel (their responsibility). For years their electricians (or IT guys) have been fooling around with them to the point where, like you said, we would have to do 100% top to bottom inspection if we ever took over these systems. I actually took some pictures of some of their handywork, especially when it comes to replacing a panel, and going to post it on here when I get a chance to pull them off my phone. Just sloppy work!

The fire marshal in this part of the state is a joke! There is practically no enforcement, and most of the reasons why anyone gets inspections or service done is because their insurance company, JACHO, or HUD is requiring it. I actually document things, like the loose bell circuits, even though it’s not in our scope of work just to CMA in case there is a problem or question in the future.

6

I was thinking the 100 was like the 200, in which I used to install, service and inspect a lot of the AFP-200’s, but not any of the AFP-100’s.

I still have (2) AFP-400’s in service on campus, one in a three story university office building that I installed as in 1994 as a contractor, and the other in our parking garage structure. Where parking is up on the upper levels, and is also our police dept. and proprietary monitoring station (CS) as well as our parking div. offices on the first level.

An interesting thing about the AFP-400 in our parking garage/police dept. was that it was originally installed years ago with an Edwards EST3 system. The EST3 would fail by falling asleep with no trouble indication at all, except a clicking sound from the CPU module, and it would not even process an alarm if the pull station next to it was pulled, not good.

To catch it, you had to walk by it in the front lobby when I would be heading into of our police dept./CS. Since the EST3 used System Sensor devices, we gutted the EST 3 (of course it was flush mounted in a nice front lobby) and installed the AFP-400 in its place, which happened in 2005 I think. Although it was not happy talking to the devices, the smokes had to be replaced, but it was happy with the modules, which saved us a ton of time & money on all the pulls and wet/dry sprinkler modules. In another thread on this forum, I was reading something about addressable protocol compatibility, and these panels were probably on the tail end of where you could get away with this.

You are correct, about the * for devices, & # for the modules, and I was meaning to look at the screen about the Nac’s because it does use B 01 through B 04 for the Nac’s and how to navigate to them.

Sorry to hear about your state fire marshal’s office not being proactive in the enforcement and repair of deficiencies in your systems. Does your state rely solely on an inspector from the FM’s office to go out and perform system inspections and follow ups? Or do they have something like what we have here in Kentucky, where we used to take a state fire certification test, in which I did back in 1992 (FAR#535), or now it’s through ICC and or to achieve NICET Level II certification (Cert in 1994). Then once certified, the tech’s then apply to be a independently Certified State Fire Alarm and or Sprinkler Inspector (Cert#341 in 1994).

Paul

7

Those EST3 can be a little quirky! I like them but then I don’t like them. My biggest gripe is that if you go in blind to an EST3 (or 2 for that matter) there is no practical way to pull a points list off the panel short of pulling the loop, which can lead to all kinds of problems. At least with most of the other systems, Firelite, Notifier, Simplex, etc. there is usually some way to go into the menu and view all the devices out in the field. It is nice being able to swap out a dirty smoke without worrying about dip switches, programming, or any of that nonsense.

I live in Maryland but our shop is located in Delaware - and 20 minutes at the most from Maryland, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey. So we basically do work in all four states. Maryland seems to be real relaxed on enforcement. In fact, there is no specific personal requirement that I be certified to do any fire alarm or sprinkler work or inspections. And for inspections, there is no state forms to fill out or turn into the FM office. Pretty much, we do the inspection, hand the customer the paperwork, and that’s it. IF the fire marshal decides to stop by, then they want to see the inspection report, but for the most part it’s on the building owner to fix any deficiencies. Delaware is much more strict. They have their own forms to fill out - for an annual inspection AND for what they call a “non-annual major deficiency” for when you are out on a service call and notice something wrong that may dramatically effect the operation of the system. They consider “majors” as a system in trouble, monitoring out of service, closed control valves, FDC obstructions, etc. You are required to report all major deficiencies to the FM office within 24 hours, anything else (minor or no deficiencies) is 30 days. For sprinkler system inspections, Delaware also requires you personally to be NICET Level 2 certified in Testing & Inspection of Water Based Systems and hold what they call a “Water Based Certification” or WBC license that is put out by the state. I was one of the first people to get a WBC license in the state and you have to put your number on the state form when you submit it. They have no certification requirement fire alarm inspections but keep talking about it. Pennsylvania and New Jersey seem to leave everything up to the individual local governments - Philadelphia has specific forms that get filled out and submitted, Mount Laurel Township in New Jersey REQUIRES a fire marshal be on site for ALL fire alarm and sprinkler inspections. Which can be a little intimidating if you are not used to it. The FM’s I’ve had to deal with there usually seem pretty cool. One guy needed some panel keys that I just happened to have spares of in my truck and was really appreciative of that. Another guy was so used to seeing me at this particular hotel, by the third time out there he said “you know what you are doing, just call me when you are done and I’ll sign off on the inspection”.

I’m in a unique position in our company where I can do both fire alarm service and inspections AND sprinkler inspections. I cannot do sprinkler service because our sprinkler shop is union, but I can get away small quick things like fixing a clogged water motor gong without upsetting anyone. The guys that do fire alarm work don’t know sprinklers and the sprinkler fitters don’t want anything to do with alarm panels. I’ve found myself over the years doing more and more on the sprinkler side but my first love is fire alarms!