This topic is about buildings with completely mixed up systems. I don’t want this to be the same as the other topic about rare combos of NA’s and pull stations. If anyone else has already done this, I apologize. I’m thinking about systems that have random devices that just don’t go together on a system.
I’ll start. I think my church defiantly takes the cake for most random system so far. The church seems to have been built sometime in the 70’s to 80’s period. At some point before 1999, a new sanctuary was added, and the old sanctuary is now the gymnasium. I cannot get certain dates because I can’t find any property records, but maybe talking to the staff there someday will shed some light, knowing some of them have been there since before that addition. This system has more types and brands of devices I have ever seen on a system that’s not a hobbyist’s.
The panel is a Notifier SFP-10UD, which is obviously not the original panel. It’s in the very back of a cluttered room in the basement. No sort of annunciator at all upstairs, making fire dept access virtually impossible in some cases.
Notification:
A handful of Faraday 6120 horn/strobes
Two Faraday 5505 horn/strobes
Two Wheelock 7002 series horn/strobes
A handful of Gentex SHG or GMS horn/strobes (wall-mount units which are all ceiling-mounted)
Initiating devices:
Five Faraday Chevron pull stations (all in or near the newer sanctuary)
Two or three EST 270-SPO pull stations
Notifier BNG-1 pull station
Fire-Lite BG-12 pull station
Simplex 4251-20 pull station
Several Simplex 4255-1 heat detectors
Unknown smoke detectors. Haven’t even looked at them.
So yeah, there you go. Weirdest system I’ve ever seen. I have no idea which alarms are original from when the building was built, if there even are any. I would have to assume the 5505’s are original because there is one mounted right outside the gym over a 270-SPO, but there’s also that weird mix of 6120s and 7002s. Let me know if you want pictures! What’s the most random system you’ve ever seen?
I’m betting from the 4251-20 pull, at one time Simplex serviced the church, and replaced a pull station that stopped working while doing so.
A good example of the type of system you mentioned would have to be the K-8 school I went to for kindergarten. It was built in 1974 and has a good chunk of its’ original system intact, but also many newer devices. The system is a Simplex 4010 installed maybe a little over 10 years ago, tied into the original Simplex 4208 panel. The 4010 is used for the duct detectors, system monitoring, the modular building and I believe signal circuits. The 4208 is used for existing pull stations and heat sensors. Prior to the 4010, they had a 4004 panel that was installed in 1998 when the boiler room was redone and the duct detectors were redone as well. The modular, built in 1996, had its own small ESL fire alarm panel at one point, but now I think it’s gone, and is now run off the 4010 in the main building.
In the main lobby, there’s a 1980s-style graphic annunciator branded by Simplex, obviously not original but probably installed in the 1980s or 1990s (maybe they had a 2001 or something tied into the 4208 at one point.)
Many of the alarms are Simplex 4051+4050-80 horn/lights (blank red lens; a few have the lens missing.) From first glance, this may seem the norm around the building, but there are also…
Two 4051 horns on Space Age AV32 light plates (one in the main gymnasium, and another in the small gym/playroom)
SpectrAlert Advance horn/strobes (in some re-walled classrooms, installed in 2012)
Wheelock MT-24-LSM horn/strobes (in the modular, built in 1996)
Wheelock NS horn/strobe slapped onto a 4050-80 (in the music room)
Simplex 4903-9236 horn/strobe (in the boiler room, redone in 1998)
Pulls can vary too:
Simplex break-glass 4251-30s (the main pulls, a few had the break-glass mechanism removed completely, a couple are missing the hammer)
RSG dual-action T-bars (in the modular)
Notifier BG-12Ls (conventional, located in some classrooms re-walled in 2012)
Edwards/AIP 270-SPOs (five scattered around the building, replacing worn-out 4251-30s)
Autocall/Federal Signal 4050-001Ts (two in the boiler room, installed in 1998)
Simplex break-glass 2099-9103s (two in the main lobby/cafetorium, installed in 2009 replacing worn-out 4251-30s)
Ceiling detection is more consistent. The only regular smoke detector I saw in the main building is an OLD Simplex 4262 ionization detector in the cafetorium. Classrooms, offices and restrooms have Simplex 4255-1 mechanical heat detectors. There are also duct detectors installed throughout the school; the current ones were installed in 1998, and had 2098-9806 test stations linked to each one (these test stations can be found in quite a few hallways, classrooms and other larger rooms.)
The modular seems to have a mix of 90s-style System Sensor and ESL smoke detectors.
There’s talk they may renovate the school soon. If they do, they said I could have some of the old alarm parts!
Cool! I remember seeing pics of that plenty of times. That sounds like a nice system. Once again, if you can get some fire alarm parts, please let me know! I would gladly buy one of two of them off you. Would the renovation include removing the whole system, or just the older 4050-80/4051 alarms?
The whole system would probably be redone, knowing how they replace fire alarm systems in school renovations in my area. And yep, I’d save one or two older alarms for you
The Community Center Chapel on the Air Force Academy, although a relatively small building, had a somewhat mixed up system. I can’t remember everything about it, but I remember seeing FCI MS-2’s, FCI MS-6’s, Kidde B5’s, Fire-Lite BG-8’s, Gentex SHG’s and this type of FCI-rebranded horn.
So it does look like one part of the system (the FCI part) was installed at one point and then later the Fire-Lite/Gentex part was added on later, but what made this system especially odd was that the devices were all installed in really odd places. For example, none of the pulls were located by the exists and the signals really appeared to be randomly spread throughout the building.
Two or three years ago, they did pull this system out and replace it with an addressable Notifier system. Now, there’s NBG-12LX’s in all of the “usual” places, SpectrAlert advances throughout the building, and covers over were the old devices used to be.
One of the buildings at my university has a pretty eclectic system. The panel is either a Simplex 4207/4208 or 2001 with this annunciator. The pull stations are a mix of bilingual Edwards 270-SPOs and bilingual Simplex 4251-series T-bars (with at least one French-only model, one break-glass version, and a few first-generation models with metal handles). The signals are mainly Simplex 4051s (some of which are flush-mounted) and 12901-9801/9802s (some are second-generation models with the newer 9219-style mechanism); a few Integrity horns can be found throughout the building, and there is also at least one 2901-9818 and one Mircom Select-A-Horn. The smoke detectors are a mix of older Fenwal models and conventional TrueAlarms, while the heat detectors are silver Thermoflex models. I’ve also spotted an old 4" Simplex bell (with the “STR” logo) and a 6" Simplex bell that seems to be from the early '90s; these signals appear to be used for other fire protection-related purposes. I’m sure there are other devices I haven’t seen in this system. The current draw from the signals must be astronomical, judging by the very high concentration of old mechanical horns throughout this large building.
The Seattle Aquarium also has (or had; I don’t know if it has been upgraded) an interesting system. If I recall correctly, the signals were a mix of Wheelock AS horn/strobes, System Sensor MA horns, and Edwards 439D-6AW bells, while the pull stations were a combination of 270-SPOs, BG-12s, and first-generation Honeywell S464As.
Finally, two years ago, I was at a hotel in Fort Lauderdale which had some kind of Fire-Lite system. The pull stations were mainly Fire-Lite BG-10s, although many had been replaced with BG-12s and Mircom MS-401Us; there was also a single FCI MS-6. The signals were a mix of Federal Signal 450s, SpectrAlert horns and horn/strobes (Classic and Advance), and 34Ts, along with a random Amseco strobe in the lobby.
One of the most diverse systems that I’ve encountered was the old fire alarm system at the Denver Museum of Nature and Science. Although I’ve made multiple posts about this system on the website, they’ve pretty much all been buried, pruned, or unsearchable for some reason. So, I’m choosing to post this system again because it would fit well in this topic and personally stands out to me.
Originally established in 1900, this museum has gone through countless renovations and expansions and I’m sure has had many different fire alarm system overhauls and upgrades as well. Since I have not been alive for most of that time and only visit this museum once every few years, I can only give a limited perspective into just some of the changes their system has went through.
Using information from this post I made six years ago and my memory, here was the museum’s system from ??? up until around 2011:
Notification Appliances:
Gamewell-rebranded Wheelock Speaker/Strobes with non-ADA strobes
This is a screenshot from a video of the museum from 2009. The speaker/strobe is the white first white circle above the sign
Gamewell-rebranded Wheelock Remote Strobes (in bathrooms) - I have no idea what specific type of alarm that would be, I’m just going off of the information from my old post
Simplex Rectangular Speaker/Strobes This is my picture, from 2012. In 2009, around half of the Notification Appliances in the museum were these alarms. Although the rest of the system’s notification appliances had been upgraded by the time I took this picture, one exhibit still had some of these “old” signals left.
Simplex TrueAlert Speaker/Strobes Another picture which I took in 2012. This particular exhibit did actually have these signals in 2009, before the other parts of the system were upgraded.
Simplex TrueAlert Horn/Strobes
Another 2012 picture. These signals were/are only located in the parking garage
Simplex TrueAlert Remote Strobes
Located in various locations outside, Wheelock AS’s, MT’s, and System Sensor SpectrAlert Classics.
Pull Stations:
Gamewell Century Pulls with the firefighter telephone jack plate (as seen here)
Simplex Single-Action T-bars, most likely the 2099-9795
Smoke Detectors:
System Sensor 2400 Series (don’t know how accurate I was identifying what the smokes were, however. There were probably Gamewell smokes from the 80’s or 90’s in the system as well)
There were/are Kirkland graphic annunciators located in various locations throughout the museum and outside every exhibition hall. These did give some hints at the history of the system as each graphic annunciator had the brand of an alarm company on the part of the annunciator with the building/exhibit layout. According to my 2009 post, the brands listed on these various annunciators included Gamewell of Colorado, Cerberus Pyrotronics (this was most likely installed during the time that CP owned Gamewell), Simplex, and SimplexGrinnell. All of the annunciators are still there, but are now all branded by SimplexGrinnell.
From the 2009 video, showing one of the graphic annunciators at the entrance to an exhibition all.
One of my pictures from 2012 showing the graphic annunciators.
I’m not sure what the panel was in the “2009” system. My guesses back then were that the panel was a Simplex panel (since an increasing amount of the system seemed to have been “taken over” by Simplex) or an older Gamewell panel tied into a Simplex one, or maybe even something else.
In 2011, the system went through a massive overhaul, with all of the old Gamwell/Wheelock devices being replaced, in addition to all of the rectangular Simplex Speaker/Strobes (except for the ones still left in the previously mentioned exhibit). According to my 2012 post about this system, here’s what everything was upgraded to:
Notification Appliances:
(In addition to all of the TrueAlert devices mentioned above, as well as the rectangular Speaker/Strobes still left in that one exhibition hall):
White Simplex TrueAlert Speaker/Strobes
[i]This 2012 picture shows one of these alarms in a spot that used to house either a red rectangular Simplex Speaker/Strobe or a white, circular Wheelock Speaker/Strobe with a non-ADA strobe.
Pull Stations:
Simplex Single-Action Tbars (with some dual action ones thrown in), most likely 4099-9001’s. In this picture from 2012, you can see one of these pulls mounted on the old Gamewell Century FireFighter’s phone jack plate.
Smoke Detectors:
(In addition to the older TrueAlarm detects mentioned above)
The current style of Simplex TrueAlarm Detectors
Again, from 2012
Additional Information
According to the Museum’s Contractor Handbook from 2010 for the General Contractor doing the fire alarm upgrade:
[quote]
A fire alarm is announced by a rising tone from low to high frequency, with a short period of silence after each tone. When the alarm sounds, the Denver Fire Department is already enroute to the Museum and Security is investigating the cause of the alarm. When a fire alarm is activated, you will hear several tones and the announcement: “May I have your attention please. What you have just heard is a fire alarm. Please stand by while an investigation is made into the nature of the alarm.” The tones will then resume.
During this period, a Security supervisor will be investigating the situation. This information will be provided to the fire units, who will respond to the area of the alarm. At this time, the fire chief will make the decision whether or not to silence the tones. When Security has been given the all clear by the fire department, the following announcement will be made: “May I have your attention, please. We have resumed normal operations. Guests of the Museum may return to their enjoyment of the Museum at this time. Thank you.”
If an evacuation is warranted, you will hear another announcement: “This is Museum Security. Everyone please evacuate the building at this time. Walk immediately, do not run, to the nearest stairs and proceed to the first floor, then use the nearest exit to leave the building. Do not use the elevators. Follow the instructions of Museum personnel as they direct you during the evacuation.”
[/quote]
My visit in 2012 was the last time I was at this museum, so I can only guess what’s changed since then. I still am disappointed that I never had the opportunity to take pictures of the “old” system at this museum as I remember being so interested by it. Although this was definitely not the most random or mixed up system, it still did have quite a bit cool of variety in it.
One final note: <URL url="System With Most Variety]Here’s[/url] a similar topic to this one that we had in 2009, if anyone is interested in reading information about more odd systems.
I remember that museum. I guess Simplex redid most of it to make it be more consistent or something.
Another similar huge Simplex system I know would have to be at the hospital I had a temporary job at a few years ago. It’s a very old hospital; parts of it date back to the 1930s (and it shows), and it has had additions built in the 1940s, in 1950 and in 1982. My grandfather is staying there right now (he’s doing much better now thankfully), and I visited him there yesterday, and not much has changed to my knowledge…
The hospital has a number of different Simplex panels, including several 4100-series models, at least one 4010, even a couple of voice-equipped 2001s! Now the locations of the panels can vary; the 2001s and one of the 4100-series panels (at least) are located in an electrical room in the basement, but in a few random electrical closets throughout the hospital a panel can be found (I remember seeing a 4100U in one of these closets.) Each renovated area also likely has its own panel. They all seem to be tied into each other.
At the main entrance, along with behind the receptionist’s desk, there are two annunciators: a Simplex 4603-9101 LCD annunciator and an older Space Age graphic annunciator, showing the first floor. Both kinds are tied into each other. I also remember the maternity wing having a 4603-9101 annunciator at its’ receptionist’s desk.
Many of the areas renovated since the mid-1990s (like the emergency wing, the blood lab, the maternity wing, the transitional care unit, etc.) typically have Simplex 4903 speaker/strobes, mainly horizontal, but I recall one wing using the vertical version. Depending on the wing, restrooms may have remote 4903 single-gang strobes or TrueAlert strobes. Non-renovated areas mainly have older 2902-9711 LifeAlarm speakers on 2903 light plates (the kind with the audible signal mounted on the front.) I also saw a Wheelock ET speaker replacing a LifeAlarm, and I remember the radiology wing having both the LifeAlarm speaker/lights and vertical 4903 speaker/strobes! The pediatric wing, renovated in the early 1990s, has 2902-9732 LifeAlarm speakers on 4903-9001 light plates. The alarm tone in each area (mostly chiming sounds) also sounds over the intercom speakers as well. I also recall the radiation therapy wing having Space Age 2DCD+AV32 horn/lights, and the family suites wing (another renovated area) having Simplex TrueAlert horn/strobes!
Pulls are all different kinds of Simplex T-bars. The norm for non-renovated areas with older alarms are Simplex 4251-20s, but a few were replaced with Simplex 2099-9754 single-action and -9756 dual-action pulls. One renovated area has 2099-9795 addressable single-action pulls, others mainly use the dual-action version (either 2099-9761s or 4099-9003s, depending on when they were installed.) Several of these pulls have Stopper II covers over them.
The majority of smoke detectors are newer-style Simplex TrueAlarms. Naturally in renovated areas with them, they are addressable. Non-renovated areas mostly have the conventional versions, but they do have addressable ones installed at the elevators. A few have thermal heat sensors on them as well. Some of the old Simplex 4259-36 smoke detectors installed in the 1980s are still intact, but are slowly being replaced with the TrueAlarms. One renovated area has 2098-9201 photoelectric heads on addressable bases of some sort. The pediatric wing and the main lobby have 2098-9201 and -9202 smoke detector heads on 2098-9637 bases.
I know the older alarms are mostly run off the 2001s, as the lights flash on 90bpm March Time, and I’ve heard them do the old 2001-style chiming tone. The emergency wing has the alarms on a Temporal version of the 4100 Chime tone! I also remember in one stairwell I could faintly hear TrueAlerts in Continuous (must’ve been the family suites wing.)
Though I’m not sure if they still have the 2001s. If they do, they will probably soon be replaced, given how Simplex can be about older systems. (The 4100-series panels seem to serve as the main brains of the system.)
I’ll just use the video I made that talk about the systems in my schools.
The only school that really doesn’t have mixed up system is the middle school.
Take note I only keep track of the Alarms and pulls. And all the panels are EST3’s(and they malfunction lots)
Either ways I’ll list the alarms of all the schools down here:
Elementary School:
-Edwards 892 horn strobe’s(located throughout the main building)
-Wheelock NS’(replaced bad 892’s)
-Wheelock MT-24-LSM(used in the cafetori-nasium?[a gym, cafeteria and auditorium combined])
-System Sensor P2RHK(one that recently replaced an 892 at the front entrance of the school)
-Edwards SIGA-270(Pull station of the main building that was set up with the 892’s)
-Edwards 438D-10N5-R(Not 100% sure it was the alarm but it was used in the Kindergarten/Art building added on next to the school)
-Fire Lite BG-10(Pull station of the Kindergarten/Art Building)
Intermediate School:
-Wheelock 7002T-24(the original building’s main fire alarm except in the new wing)
-Simplex 4251-1(Chevron Pulls that was the original pull station of the original building aside from the new wing)
-Wheelock 34T-24(alarms used in the Cafetorium and gymnasium which are behind grates within the walls)
-Kidde B5(one pull station I know is in one of the music rooms)
-System Sensor P1224MC(two located in the school that at one point replaced 7002T’s)
-Wheelock EH-EL1(I originally thought it was an AH until I first heard it)
-Wheelock EH-EL1-WM-24(Two in an extended area of the multilevel section of the building. I originally thought they were MT4’s.)
-Edwards 870P-N5(a mystery I could never solve. Edwards 870’s run on 120 VAC. Yet they work with the 24 VDC System. WAT?)
-System Sensor MA/SS-24D(2 of them function in the new wing of the school and interestingly in whoop tone)
-Wheelock MT4-24-WM(with the MA/SS-24D’s in whoop as well)
-Fire Lite BG-8(under one of the MA/SS-24D’s)
-Edwards SIGA-270(located under the MT4)
-EST 757-8A-T(the only outdoor alarm there)
High School:
-Wheelock 46T-G10-24-WS(Main alarm of the original building)
-Edwards SIGA-270(Main pull station of the original building.)
-Federal Signal 450D-VALS (Alarm used in the Gym and Auxiliary Gym)
-Simplex 2901-9333+4903-9101(Used in the pool, athletic and library areas which were built in the 80’s)
-Simplex 4251-20(covered same areas as the 9333’s)
-Wheelock MT4-24-WM(Used in an added part of the multilevel part of the building)
-EST G1RF-HDVM(another addition and renovation to some parts of the school and this was the alarm of choice)
-EST SIGA-278B(and this was the pull used)
Strangely grey but everything else was still red. I don’t even know when the school was built but I bet that was from the bell system.(not 100% sure though)
Are you sure it was linked to the fire alarm system? My high school also has gray Adaptahorns but as some sort of different alarm (along with a Simplex 4041 hanging outside of the bus entrance)
By far, the most mixed-up system I’ve seen was at Allegheny General Hospital. I posted photos of it <URL url="Allegheny General Hospital FA Pics]here[/url]. The hospital is made up of multiple connected high-rise buildings and has components of systems spanning 80 years that were still functioning when I took those photos. As far as I know, all of this has been replaced (or is still being replaced) by a Notifier system with a 7-digit bid.
South Tower (20 stories, built in 1936):
Honeywell FS90 Plus system (installed in 1993-1994)
I know it’s been a while, but I found another “mixed up” system I felt like sharing. While the initiating devices were consistent, the alarm signals sure weren’t!
This is at the East Bridgewater 6 Cinema in, well, East Bridgewater MA. (I saw “Ted 2” there with my brother today.) I think it’s from the 80s or early 90s, but has since been renovated. All the pulls I saw were Edwards 270-SPOs, including one in each theater’s fire exit (the lobby had a much newer one from the early 2000s installed, the others were the usual 60s - 80s style.) The smoke detectors are some kind of Pyrotector model, IIRC (or maybe an older System Sensor type.) One alarm in the main lobby’s entrance is an Edwards 892-series horn/strobe (probably electronic), and at the other end is a Wheelock AS horn/strobe on a trim plate! Then in the area going from the lobby to the theaters themselves is a Wheelock MT4-24-LSM (and that is also visible from the main lobby!) The theater I saw the film in had what looked like a Gentex SHG horn/strobe in the back.
Im sure that was a massive project to undertake. Shame to see all of those older devices to go out though, but I do agree that hospitals need modern life safety equipment to protect people. Just wish someone could have gotten some of those cool devices.
Would the renovation include removing the whole system, or just the older 4050-80/4051 alarms?
