What do you think about the Honeywell BG-12 Issues?

[Nytrixe]

Curious what you all think about this. I don’t work in the field so perhaps my concern isn’t warranted.

I’ve seen multiple examples across YouTube and Reddit of various BG-12 models failing to activate when pulled. From the sample set that I’ve seen, the failure itself is consistent: the handle fails to activate the switch when pulled. Usually, after being reset and retested, the unit works again, but I’m a bit concerned that such similar failures are seen across so many units.

What troubles me even more is that, from what I hear, some jurisdictions require only one pull station on their systems. If a building (such as a hotel, school, or workplace) only had one BG-12, and that pull station failed, that could have serious consequences. While smoke detectors and sprinklers provide a second line of defense against fire, there are other emergencies that could require immediate evacuation, such as a gas leak or a bomb threat. Not all buildings are outfitted with automatic triggers for those conditions. If the building staff didn’t have access—or the know-how—to activate the system via the panel or annunciator… well, it might not be good.

I may be overthinking this. Any pull station is susceptible to random failure, and besides, many schools and office buildings have PA systems. These kinds of buildings usually also have a lot of people around who could spread the message to evacuate. My concern mostly comes from the “but sometimes” case. Buildings that are susceptible to this problem may have PA systems, but that’s no guarantee (I can’t remember the last time I was in a hotel that had a PA speaker in my room). More importantly, some situations might be so urgent that spreading the evacuation order by mouth just wouldn’t be practical. With that in mind, I’m not sure it’s a good idea to be using a design known to be problematic, even if no such failure has proven fatal yet.

Honeywell would obviously have to spend a lot of money to recall these pull stations, but if the above scenario were to occur and a pull station failed during an emergency, people could be injured or killed—in which case they would have to pay out not only for a recall, but also for lawsuits. I’m guessing it’d be cheaper to do things the right way.

What do you all think?

Here are three examples of the failures that I’ve seen:

1. https://youtu.be/S8_SP5Zust4?si=-Q7w8owPvcEDLV50&t=308
2. https://www.reddit.com/r/firealarms/comments/t0et5c/known_issue_with_honeywellgamewell_bg_pull/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
3. https://youtu.be/-Ry5OeRFIH0?si=HXETLeIx_fgaqtjH&t=850 - this one did activate with some extra pressure, but the average person wouldn’t know where the switch is or how the pull station works, so they might not figure this out during an emergency (especially since stress often overtakes logic in those scenarios).

Edit: added a timestamp to the third link.

[aerhardt]

I definitely agree with you l. I’ve said the same thing.

[TheCarson116]

I’m actually not sure I’ve ever come across this problem myself to be honest (& I own several BG-12s!).

@Nytrixe

What troubles me even more is that, from what I hear, some jurisdictions require only one pull station on their systems. If a building (such as a hotel, school, or workplace) only had one BG-12, and that pull station failed, that could have serious consequences. While smoke detectors and sprinklers provide a second line of defense against fire, there are other emergencies that could require immediate evacuation, such as a gas leak or a bomb threat. Not all buildings are outfitted with automatic triggers for those conditions. If the building staff didn’t have access—or the know-how—to activate the system via the panel or annunciator… well, it might not be good.

Yeah. Pull stations being largely phased out in favor of automatic detectors &/or sprinklers is also so dumb to me, as it’s always good to have a manual way of doing something if the automatic way should fail (which does happen since technology obviously isn’t perfect).

@Nytrixe

Honeywell would obviously have to spend a lot of money to recall these pull stations, but if the above scenario were to occur and a pull station failed during an emergency, people could be injured or killed—in which case they would have to pay out not only for a recall, but also for lawsuits. I’m guessing it’d be cheaper to do things the right way.

You say that but from what I’ve seen these days most companies would rather just carry on like nothing’s wrong…until something happens, which they’ll then likely deny all responsibility for even if it’s very obvious that they are: so many companies nowdays just do not have any morals or hindsight whatsoever (the latter in that doing the right thing will likely work out to greater profits & reputation in the long run, but no: they always seem to go with the short-term “solution” instead just because it’s the cheapest & least disruptive to their operations, no matter how much their reputation ends up destroyed or who is injured or killed in the process).

@Nytrixe

https://youtu.be/-Ry5OeRFIH0?si=1sMcTpBw-8dxinIg - this one did activate with some extra pressure, but the average person wouldn’t know where the switch is or how the pull station works, so they might not figure this out during an emergency (especially since stress often overtakes logic in those scenarios).

You might want to add a timecode to this one since I for one have no idea where the failure in question happens.

[Mhgk]

@TheCarson116

You say that but from what I’ve seen these days most companies would rather just carry on like nothing’s wrong…until something happens

Honeywell has recalled quite a few products over the years. These include the L-Series recalls (both the 2017 speaker strobe recall and the 2024 LF sounder recall), the SpectrAlert Classic recall, the Select series recall, and even the NFS-320 and NFS2-640 back in 2008. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility of the BG12 being recalled.

[TheCarson116]

I guess I was just going by what I’ve seen most companies do, but yeah: you have a point in Honeywell seemingly being fairly vigilant about recalls.

[simplex_4903-9238]

Since when did BG-12’s give issues. Talk about the knockoff ones lol.

[aerhardt]

@TheCarson116

Yeah. Pull stations being largely phased out in favor of automatic detectors &/or sprinklers is also so dumb to me, as it’s always good to have a manual way of doing something if the automatic way should fail (which does happen since technology obviously isn’t perfect).

Even if the automatic detectors don’t fail, there are many situations where people will notice the emergency situation well before automatic detectors can. One good example would be at many Walmarts. If you’ve ever seen a video of a fire in a Walmart, the fire has often been going for quite a while and most people have already evacuated the store before the alarm goes off.

@TheCarson116

You might want to add a timecode to this one since I for one have no idea where the failure in question happens.

It’s at 14:10.

[TheCarson116]

@aerhardt

Even if the automatic detectors don’t fail, there are many situations where people will notice the emergency situation well before automatic detectors can. One good example would be at many Walmarts. If you’ve ever seen a video of a fire in a Walmart, the fire has often been going for quite a while and most people have already evacuated the store before the alarm goes off.

There you go, especially in the case of Walmarts given they for some reason don’t appear to have detectors in most public areas of the store (which is the case for a lot of other stores, also for some reason).

@aerhardt

It’s at 14:10.

Alright, thanks! (still might want to add the timecode for newcomers to this topic though)

[Nytrixe]

@TheCarson116

You might want to add a timecode to this one since I for one have no idea where the failure in question happens.

Sorry about that, fixed. Thought I copied the YouTube link with a timecode, guess I forgot to hit the “Start at” button lol.

@aerhardt

If you’ve ever seen a video of a fire in a Walmart, the fire has often been going for quite a while and most people have already evacuated the store before the alarm goes off.

That one never occurred to me, but you’re absolutely right. I seldom see smoke detectors in the large stores near me (perhaps I’m not paying close enough attention). That leaves it up to the sprinkler system, which won’t even trigger until the temperature near the ceiling gets high enough. I’m glad my local Walmart has a decent amount of pulls.

@TheCarson116

You say that but from what I’ve seen these days most companies would rather just carry on like nothing’s wrong…until something happens, which they’ll then likely deny all responsibility for even if it’s very obvious that they are: so many companies nowdays just do not have any morals or hindsight whatsoever (the latter in that doing the right thing will likely work out to greater profits & reputation in the long run, but no: they always seem to go with the short-term “solution” instead just because it’s the cheapest & least disruptive to their operations, no matter how much their reputation ends up destroyed or who is injured or killed in the process).

True! It’s unfortunate — the penalties for these things aren’t harsh enough for most companies. As @Mhgk said, it seems like Honeywell has done okay with recalls so far, so hopefully that continues.