I have wondered this for a while. If you can buy a PC for $150, why is a MS-2 $300?
First of all for your comparison, a computer is a commonly produced consumer item. They have been purposely designed and engineered over the years from the giant mainframe computers that were only for large companies down to the small, affordable units we see today that anyone can own. On the other hand, fire alarm products in general are not for the consumer market. They are specialized devices designed to be installed once within all of the construction costs, protect the building’s occupants over the lifetime of the structure, and either be replaced as technology advances or go down with the building in the end. Luckily for us, however, some of the devices are salvaged and end up on eBay. That is where the high price comes from: it is a reflection of that initial cost when installed into a building, as the seller tries to make money on it. If they see its value as that of which it cost to install however many years ago, then so be it.
Long story short, they are meant to be sold to construction contractors, companies, and distributors with a large amount of capital available, so they are able to charge a premium due to the the fact that a required $300 panel will not hurt the budget of a business as much as it will an alarm collector hunting for parts on eBay.
A PC for $150? Unheard of!
</PCBS humor>
but for real, I have never seen a PC cost that low
FACPs cost that much because they require extensive testing, need to be custom designed, there is a smaller market, have larger power supplies than computers, etc.
You cannot really compare the costs of a computer with the cost of a fire alarm panel. They are completely different things designed and built entirely different. It would be like comparing a toaster oven with pair of pants! Think about how a computer is built - even though it’s a brand name computer, the internal parts (memory, wireless card, hard drive, operating system, etc) are all manufactured by third party companies. About the only thing specified by the brand name manufacturer is the case. A fire alarm panel is pretty specific to the manufacturer - the cabinet is built to their specs, circuit board is custom built, software is designed specifically for that system. Add to that all the R&D costs, listing costs (UL, FM, MEA), dealer and tech support costs, etc. Plus what others have already mentioned.
A more valid comparison would be take a residential burglar alarm panel and a commercial fire alarm panel from the same manufacturer in the same model family - like the Ademco Vista 128 series. They have both a Vista 128 for residential burglar alarm use and a Vista 128 for commercial fire/burglar alarm use. The commercial fire panel does a lot more and has a greater listing than the residential burglar alarm panel and thus costs a lot more - and that’s the reason, nothing to really analyze. It would be like comparing a Chevrolet Silverado 1500 Work Truck to a Chevrolet Silvarado 3500 LTZ - there’s a clear reason there is a +$25K difference in the price!
Well my gaming PC costs like what $3000+
couple of reasons off the top of my head:
- An FACP goes through a very expensive UL listing process to make sure it meets the high expectations of life safety equipment. That expense up front has to be recouped over the life of the product. (This is probably the main reason they cost so much and why innovation seems to lag behind current technology levels.).
- PC’s are throwaway consumer goods. FACP’s are designed to last 15-20 years actively running 24/7… ever leave a PC on that long? Ever even hear of it? Much less have it a common occurrence?
- PC’s are available to the masses. A single FACP may cover an office tower for 20 years, there could easily be 200 PC’s (or 2,000 or pick a number) in that office tower which are replaced every 3-5 years… do the math. This is known as economies of scale… sell that much of something, it becomes much cheaper to produce.
I’m not sure what the average life expectancy of a fire alarm panel is, but i’d put it at around 20 years. We have a lot installed that are much older though.
Notification appliances aren’t that expensive compared to any other normal building component you find in your school. The MSRP prices you see on websites or online are way above what any installer actually pays, and every light ballast, outlet, etc. in your school isn’t exactly cheap. Also, 40k for NA’s is probably 10k in devices, and 30k for installing them.
I think its been said a couple times, but a lot has to do with all of the testing in order to get something approved, and how much demand there is for certain products.
Sprinklers are along the same lines as fire alarm components. Some sprinklers cost $5-$10 new, but others can be about $150 a piece. I was told by a representative of a sprinkler manufacturer once that it costs millions to test a new product, perfect it, and then get it tested and approved by Underwriters, Factory Mutual, and possibly other foreign approval boards. They have to make that money back somehow in order to come out with a profitable product. It all comes down to the application of the specific item. Sprinklers and related system parts can be sold for less if they are commonly used and demand is high. A standard chrome pendent sprinkler head is widely used, compared to say, the $150 a pop window sprinkler. They need to charge more for it because they will not sell as quickly and they need to make their money back. And the thing is, if a window sprinkler is required to adequately protect a structure, the owner is going to cough it up.
My server (residential computer) has been on 24/7 for 4 years, being shut down twice for cleaning. A FACP can also last a lot shorter than this, if you look at what EST offers. Of course, the standard throwaway pc would not last as long.
We have massive EST installations in place (campus’s, so we can’t easily convert them), and haven’t installed one new since the 90s… zero issues. Whoever does the work will determine how good it will be or not.
Of course EST was sold to GE and then UTC since then.
To a non-techie that doesn’t even count as a computer. If anything a netbook or Chromebook would have to take that place.
Moving on… It’s very interesting what has to go into testing of a fire panel. It has to tested to fail in a safe fashion or be able to handle the elements thrown at it. Since I’ve been designing my own SLC protocol on spare time, I still have to make it be able to handle +5kv transients, shorts, ground faults, etc… and not have it blow up. That’s why addressable systems are more costly because even the modules have to be tested to last as well.
Well, 40k not just for NAs, but for initiating devices, the panel, all the wiring and installation costs, etc.
Coming from the inside, here’s the truth on why the price is expensive:
- UL testing as someone already stated but also includes FM, CSFM, NYC, Chicago, seismic listings. For a new panel is close to $300k-$500k in investment PLUS follow-up re-certification (like when UL 10th is released) to maintain keeping the product up to standards.
- Panels use the highest quality parts available. Panels are designed to work NON-STOP for a minimum of 10 years but typically want 15 years of use. This means over-engineering the design and using nothing but the best components (resisters, capacitors, relays, transistors, etc) to handle external (weather) and internal (sloppy techs) interface
- Depending on manufacture, concept to delivery is between 24 to 96 months. Its not just engineering development costs. Marketing, manufacturing, training, communications require multi-million investments for the business.
- Panels are sold through engineered system or security distributors. They also need to make money to keep their doors open too.
- Carries a price premium because in most cases they are required by code to open the building.
Recently I found some old price books and I was shocked how expensive conventional or even basic addressable panels were. I think alot of it came back to cost of the product because most designs were through-hole and less microprocessor dependent.