A Debate Of The Worst

I for one love Edwards: sure some of their decisions & products may be questionable but besides that from what I’ve seen they’re a lot better than some companies! What’s more they’ve not only been under the ownership of some pretty good parents through the years (General Signal Corporation, SPX Corporation, General Electric, United Technologies Corporation, & now Carrier Global), but they’ve innovated during those years. What other company that you know of makes a multi-sensor/multi-criteria detector like the Signature & Signature Optica serieses? What other company that you know of makes panels with built-in failsafes that actually allow the panel to continue operating even if the CPU fails?

As I have said before, Edwards/EST’s faults are few in number compared to their successes.

Yeah: Simplex was great back in the days of being owned by Tyco (& of course when they were independent as well), but all that went out the window as soon as JCI bought them: since then it’s been nothing but crap.

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I’d have to say the Cerberus/Siemens MXL. Never have I worked on a panel more confusing and frustrating. Particularly the fact that there’s a trouble logged for going in and out of trouble on these panels, and you can only scroll one way in the menus. And this is coming from a person who likes the Edwards ESA-2000

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That does sound like a headache (not to mention some obvious design flaws).

additionally, they have wheelock problems.

Why is wheelock a problem

wheelock is not the problem, siemens is. to make a long story short, siemens did really stupid stuff and got in a lawsuit with wheelock in 2008 for patent infringement.

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The smart sync module is not proprietary, you can buy them an they work. its not IDnet or nothin

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the typos you made were so perfectly put so that it looks like the text has a southern accent.

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Their designs were way too similar to what Wheelock made and used some of the same technology inside.

And the result of that lawsuit was Siemens had to use wheelock products for 8 years after the lawsuit

From what I have been told it wasn’t the designs of Siemens’ (technically Faraday’s/Cerberus Pyrotronics’) signals that prompted Wheelock’s lawsuit: it was the fact that Siemens (though technically Faraday as the protocol is called “Faraday Sync”) copied Wheelock’s sync protocol almost directly (not sure why they waited until some years after Faraday & Cerberus Pyrotronics had both been acquired by Siemens (1998) to sue though).

As for continuing to use rebranded Wheelock signals, Siemens probably felt it wasn’t worth it financially to restart production of their own devices, especially since they’re in multiple industries besides just life safety (the latter of which they probably don’t consider as important as the others). This unfortunately means that Wheelock’s lawsuit killed Siemens’ unique NAs, which we may never see again (though I’m hoping that someday they feel like being unique again in that regard).

are you feeling bad for siemens? you know that amseco made devices that look like siemens NAs too, right?

Why shouldn’t I? Their notification appliances were quite nicely designed & definitely unique in some regards, & I for one think it’s a shame that Wheelock’s lawsuit is to blame for their demise. As for Amseco: most of their devices are quite unique in design too: if anything they copied System Sensor more than they did Faraday/Cerberus Pyrotronics/Siemens! (with their ceiling-mount devices at least)

Cerberus pyrotronics made some awesome stuff back in the 80’s and early 90’s

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Siemens is very common in almost all new buildings in my area.

I agree with you there.

Not sure what it means either but I’m assuming it means the detector has photoelectric, ionization and heat sensors all built in.

modern simplex because its so proprietary with sync.

Not really with sync, but higher end panels need a software license to program, so they can be proprietary

No, the smoke sensor has 2 IR leds shining like n different directions, and a blue led. This allows it to determine the size and color of the particles, reducing false alarms. Apparently they’re pretty slow though