AMC Theater, Ft. Meyers, FL
Panel
Simplex 4100+ with voice evacuation
ShopRite - Somers Point, NJ
Panel: Silent Knight Addressable Panel
Pulls: SD500-PS’
Detectors: At least one SD505-APS
AVs: Indoor: Siemens UMMTs interestingly enough (Could be Faraday branded)
There was no outdoor version of the U-MMT. Did you hear the alarm sound? It may have been a U-MHU-MCS-WP instead.
Possibly, but they appear to be indoor devices in an outdoor setting that are extremely weathered. But the few AS’ look quite weathered as well so who knows. Those devices have been out there a very long time now
Spectronics is / was located in Lincoln Nebraska and was Started by John Damke, an ex engineer of Notifier – Lincoln Nebraska. Back in 2001 I was a distributor for Spectronics but lost favor with them because they did not offer cutting edge products, they rebranded many panels from other manufacturers, many of which I was already a distributor for.
Hilton Minneapolis-St. Paul Airport- Bloomington, MN
Panel: Simplex 4100+ with voice evac handling most of the system, and a Fire-Lite ES-200X handling addressable devices for elevator recall. The ES-200x most likely is wired to trip the 4100+, but I doubt that it works the other way because there are no notification appliances or anything on the ES-200x.
Notification Appliances: Wheelock E(T)70-w speakers. There are no strobes present in the entire 10 story building.
Pull Stations: Mostly ESL 103-01 pull stations with some Fire-Lite BG-12Ls as replacements
Smoke Detectors: Mostly System Sensor 2W-Bs, a few conventional Simplex TrueAlarm smoke detectors, and Fire-Lite SD365 addressable smoke detectors in the elevator lobbies tied into the ES-200X
Overall, I would say this building could do with a complete fire alarm overhaul. It feels like the owners have been trying to get by with the cheapest way possible of keeping their system compliant with the grandfathered codes that apply to their building.
It really does need an overhaul. Cheap shoddy work like this is what puts lives at risk.
Yeah, especially given how deadly hotel fires have been in the past: need I mention the MGM Grand fire of 1980? (a big contributor to the number of deaths was the lack of a properly-functioning fire alarm system)
This is why we have Insta hashtags like #whatafirealarmfail.
I find this curious – it seems that there’s a misunderstanding out there for some strange reason that conventional panels can’t be used for elevator recall? (I haven’t been able to find anything that’d prohibit conventional panels and 4-wire relay detectors for recall service, at least for the common case of N/C elevator recall circuits.)
I think the bigger question is “is it sprinklered?” I reckon that sprinklers, especially in a managed environs like a hotel, would cover for what would otherwise be a lot of sins…
Yeah I don’t see why a conventional panel couldn’t handle elevator recall as easily as an addressable panel could (it would probably just be somewhat-more complex).
They sorta would, but I’d say that the ideal setup would be having both in place: a fire alarm system to alert both occupants & the fire department & tell the former to evacuate, & a fire sprinkler system to help control (& maybe even outright extinguish) any fire that breaks out.
You are right, but they likely decided to go with an addressable panel as they could probably just reuse the existing wiring in the building or add minimal wiring, making it cheaper.
Yes it is a sprinklered building, but many of the sprinkler heads look to be heavily damaged. I would argue that a fire alarm system is just as important as a sprinkler system; especially in a building as big as this where the fire alarm system may be used for other emergencies.
IBC/IFC section 907.6.3 requires fire alarm systems to provide point identification for initiating devices with 4 exceptions:
Dr. Wade B. McCamey Student Services Building - GE EST3 Voice Evacuation System (DEFUNCT)
Notification Appliances:
Pull Stations:
Smokes:
Clifford H. “Bo” Henry Centre for Business & Technology Building - Fully Intact and Original Simplex 2001-8001 Panel
Notification Appliances:
Pull Stations:
Smokes:
I couldn’t get a lot of pics where I didn’t have a lot of time to. Sorry about that. The good news is that the Simplex 2001-8001 is fully intact and still in service! It may end up replaced while I’m attending though (knowing the notoriousness of old systems disappearing), so I may end up obtaining it in the long run.
I’m familiar with the section; however, it does have me wondering why it’d be applied to what’s effectively an expansion of an existing system to incorporate new functionality, such as elevator recall (vs. installing a new system, where it’d make sense to apply it).
I’d have expected a previous conventional recall system to be monitored by the existing panel instead of using a dedicated recall panel. (But, that might just be me – I’m not a fan of multiplying objects or introducing additional complexity without good cause, and having what’s effectively a sub-fire-panel with cross-trip complications to do elevator recall strikes me as a bit unnecessary, even without the addressable stuff in play.)
Technically exception 4 only explicitly applies to replacements of existing devices, not system expansions.
I agree, unless the elevator was only recently installed or the elevator previously did not have automatic recall functionality (since recall is not required by the ASME safety code for existing elevators).
The building has an i3 smoke detector around every 10 feet in the hallways and spread throughout other parts of the building. They definitely have way more than 10.
Yes the elevators were upgraded since the last time I was there two years ago to have fire recall.
Yeah, there is definitely no chance exception 2 would apply.
That makes a lot of sense. The addressability was probably required by IBC/IFC in that case, so as you mentioned, the owners seem to be keeping the system minimally compliant with grandfathered codes (although I’m not sure what triggered the elevator upgrade).
For what it’s worth, depending on how many zones the 4100+ has, it might make sense to remove the 4100+, replace the voice system with an ECC, and connect the i3 zones with MMF-302 modules, replacing the 4098-9757 detectors with additional SD365s or i3s.
I just read online that the 4098-9757 is addressable. Is the system using 4098-9757 detectors, or is it using conventional detectors that look like the 4098-9757?
Given that I think this is an older Simplex voice evacuation system I think the Speaker is a 4902-9707 or 9708 & the remote strobe is either a Simplex 4904-9135, 9136, 9137, 9301, 9305 or 9309 (I’ll admit this one is in pretty bad shape)
I guess I made a mistake with my research. Yes they did use conventional TrueAlarms; not 4098-9757s.
