You are right, but they likely decided to go with an addressable panel as they could probably just reuse the existing wiring in the building or add minimal wiring, making it cheaper.
Yes it is a sprinklered building, but many of the sprinkler heads look to be heavily damaged. I would argue that a fire alarm system is just as important as a sprinkler system; especially in a building as big as this where the fire alarm system may be used for other emergencies.
IBC/IFC section 907.6.3 requires fire alarm systems to provide point identification for initiating devices with 4 exceptions:
Dr. Wade B. McCamey Student Services Building - GE EST3 Voice Evacuation System (DEFUNCT)
Notification Appliances:
Pull Stations:
Smokes:
Clifford H. “Bo” Henry Centre for Business & Technology Building - Fully Intact and Original Simplex 2001-8001 Panel
Notification Appliances:
Pull Stations:
Smokes:
I couldn’t get a lot of pics where I didn’t have a lot of time to. Sorry about that. The good news is that the Simplex 2001-8001 is fully intact and still in service! It may end up replaced while I’m attending though (knowing the notoriousness of old systems disappearing), so I may end up obtaining it in the long run.
I’m familiar with the section; however, it does have me wondering why it’d be applied to what’s effectively an expansion of an existing system to incorporate new functionality, such as elevator recall (vs. installing a new system, where it’d make sense to apply it).
I’d have expected a previous conventional recall system to be monitored by the existing panel instead of using a dedicated recall panel. (But, that might just be me – I’m not a fan of multiplying objects or introducing additional complexity without good cause, and having what’s effectively a sub-fire-panel with cross-trip complications to do elevator recall strikes me as a bit unnecessary, even without the addressable stuff in play.)
Technically exception 4 only explicitly applies to replacements of existing devices, not system expansions.
I agree, unless the elevator was only recently installed or the elevator previously did not have automatic recall functionality (since recall is not required by the ASME safety code for existing elevators).
The building has an i3 smoke detector around every 10 feet in the hallways and spread throughout other parts of the building. They definitely have way more than 10.
Yes the elevators were upgraded since the last time I was there two years ago to have fire recall.
Yeah, there is definitely no chance exception 2 would apply.
That makes a lot of sense. The addressability was probably required by IBC/IFC in that case, so as you mentioned, the owners seem to be keeping the system minimally compliant with grandfathered codes (although I’m not sure what triggered the elevator upgrade).
For what it’s worth, depending on how many zones the 4100+ has, it might make sense to remove the 4100+, replace the voice system with an ECC, and connect the i3 zones with MMF-302 modules, replacing the 4098-9757 detectors with additional SD365s or i3s.
I just read online that the 4098-9757 is addressable. Is the system using 4098-9757 detectors, or is it using conventional detectors that look like the 4098-9757?
Given that I think this is an older Simplex voice evacuation system I think the Speaker is a 4902-9707 or 9708 & the remote strobe is either a Simplex 4904-9135, 9136, 9137, 9301, 9305 or 9309 (I’ll admit this one is in pretty bad shape)
I guess I made a mistake with my research. Yes they did use conventional TrueAlarms; not 4098-9757s.
it really isn’t that bad, there weren’t any scratches or anything, it just got some paint on it
Time for a megapost…
The images say it all
Also, some fails will be featured here, and later posted in Fire Alarm Fails, and is already on the Instagram #whatafirealarmfail.
P.S. R.I.P. Simplex 2001 with EVAC. Hopefully the one at Walters State Community College in Morristown TN has a better fate
Professional Circle - Colts Neck, NJ
Panel: Silent Knight Conventional Panel (SK-5235 Annunciator)
Pulls: Ademco 5140MPS-1(or 2)s
Detectors: System Sensor i3s
AVs: Wheelock NS’ and RSS’
I went back to that mugshots a while back, more troubles!! 
this time it was an invalid reply for a drumroll please!! Pull Station!! thats fun, it was the one near an exit. I saw no visual pulling, i hit the thing one time, tiny hit, it works fine now, but an invalid reply on an heat detector! most likely in the kitchen!
Hilton Sandestin Beach Resort- Miramar Beach, FL
This is a fairly large resort with four buildings/sections that are all connected to each other. All of the buildings/sections share what is likely a Simplex 4100ES. Each building has different devices, so I will explain each building/section individually.
Main Building/Lobby:
This building is only one floor and is in the middle of the complex between the Spa Building and the Convention Center. It contains the hotel’s lobby, two restaurants, and an indoor swimming pool.
Notification Appliances: Mostly Wheelock E90-W and E60-W speakers. There are some Wheelock E90-24(XX)C-FW and E70-24(XX)W-FR speaker/strobes, Wheelock RSS-24(XX)W-FW remote strobes (including one on a Simplex 2903 retrofit plate), Simplex 4902-9716 remote speakers, and a couple Eaton ELSPSTR speaker/strobes.
Pull Stations: Simplex 4099-9006 dual action addressable pull stations
Detectors: Simplex 4098-9714 addressable TrueAlarms
Convention Center:
This building is between the Main Building/Lobby and the Emerald Tower. It contains many ballrooms, meeting rooms, and small theaters spread out over two floors.
Notification Appliances: The upper level has mostly Eaton ELSPSTR speaker/strobes with one older Wheelock speaker/strobe with an SLM strobe. The lower level has mostly Wheelock E90-W and E60-W remote speakers and Simplex 4902-9721 remote speakers. There are also a few Eaton ELSPSTR and Wheelock E70-24MCW-FR speaker/strobes, a few Simplex 4903 horizontal speaker/strobes, and a couple Wheelock ET70WP-24(XX)W-FR speaker/strobes outside in the covered parking area.
Pull Stations: Simplex 4099-9006 dual action addressable pull stations
Detectors: Simplex 4098-9714 addressable TrueAlarms
Spa Tower:
This is the second largest building on the property, and one of two buildings with guest rooms. It has seven floors, and is just barely under what qualifies as a high rise building.
Notification Appliances: Mostly Wheelock AS-24(XX)W-FR horn/strobes, with a few anomalies such as an RSSWP-24(XX)W-FR, an MT-24(XX)W-FR, and a Simplex TrueAlert red wall mount horn/strobe in a restaurant in the outdoor pool area that is connected to the Spa Tower. I wasn’t in the guest rooms in this building, but I would guess that they probably have mini horns or sounder bases if they have addressable detectors in the rooms.
Pull Stations: Simplex 4099-9001 single action addressable pull stations
Detectors: Simplex 4098-9714 addressable TrueAlarms
Fail:
I saw this while walking around. This was in the lower level, which is almost a basement. Apparently, water was in the ceiling (probably from the pool) and it was coming out through a detector. I think it might have shorted the SLC, as none of the detectors in that building were polling (though, I’m not sure about the pull stations as that building has the older ones that do not have LED’s). Luckily, I saw the Johnson Controls van outside the next day so I think they were probably fixing the problem and replacing the detector.
Emerald Tower:
This is by far the largest building on the property. It has 15 floors. It consists completely of guest rooms.
Notification Appliances: Each floor has two Federal Signal SPAF-70RHR speakers with VALS strobes on them, with one on each end of the very long hallway that turns multiple corners and sort of does a “zig-zag” through the floor. The 13th floor has Simplex 4903 horizontal speaker/strobes replacing those and the 1st floor has two Wheelock E90-W speakers at one end of the hallway and a Wheelock ET70WP-24(XX)W-FR at the other end. Along the rest of the hallways except at the ends (excluding the first floor which only has devices at the ends of the hallway) and in all of the rooms are Wheelock E60-W speakers. The elevator lobbies on each floor have Wheelock E70-24(XX)W-FR speaker/strobes.
Pull Stations: Simplex 4099-9006 dual action addressable pull stations
Detectors: Simplex 4098-9714 addressable TrueAlarms
Final Thoughts:
This place definitely has a very interesting system with a lot of very interesting history. Based on what it looks like, I think they probably started out with an Autocall/Federal Signal voice evac system in the 80’s. Then in the late 90’s they likely got a Simplex 4100+/4120 system but kept most of the old devices. In the early 2000’s the Spa Tower was probably built, expanding that Simplex system and possibly upgrading to a 4100U. Recently (in the past 10 years or so), they have replaced all of the old conventional initiation devices with new Simplex addressable devices. They have also been replacing old notification appliances with new Wheelock/Eaton ones as they fail or when they renovate an area.
Interestingly, this place has quite a lack of strobes. I would say around 75% of the devices are remote speakers. For examples, many hallways, restaurants, and bathrooms have only remote speakers. I would say that the only areas that meet ADA standards for strobe coverage are the Spa Tower and the upper level of the convention center.
Despite being a huge complex, it has relatively few addressable devices because it is fully sprinklered so the only smoke detectors are in the elevator lobbies, and all of the guest rooms just have 120V smoke alarms. In fact, this place has so few points that I would say the entire complex could be handled by a single 4017ES panel if it was built today.
A 4017ES might be able to support the number of points needed for the complex, however I doubt that it would be enough for the voice communication functions compared to a 4100ES.
Costco Wholesale - Manahawkin, NJ
Panel: FireLite MS-9200UDLS
Pulls: BG-12LXes (Pre-Honeywell)
Detectors: At least one SD365
AVs: System Sensor P2Rs, SRs, PC2Rs, and SCRs
I was just there this past Sunday and it seems like now around 1/3 of the S8 devices in Terminal 1 have been replaced with Eluxa devices (including the entire D Concourse except for the restaurants), with more to come as they are still in the process of redoing the ceiling design in many areas. I didn’t see any E70 replacements, as they haven’t really changed much with the walls.
Also, does anyone know if the XLS-1000 is still in service in Terminal 1? I’ve heard a lot of conflicting information about that. I know it was definitely still in service in July of 2023 because I was last at this airport around that time and I saw an annunciator for the XLS-1000 that was still powered up and in service. Unfortunately, I didn’t make it to that area of the building with this most recent visit and I likely will not be returning to the airport for a couple more years. I did, however, see that all of the devices are still running on CLIP protocol, so that makes me think it could possibly still be in service.
Sorry for replying almost a month later.
This actually is a siemens sl2 WHEELOCK LED3 speaker strobe! not eluxa.
August 2025 Update, It now has system sensor led speaker strobes! and now has gamewell bg-12s, still has the wheelock stuff atleast.
Save some of the alarms if you can.
