Wait really? My local fire protection company still sells them as their most popular system with the EST4 being a rare choice since it is designed for massive complexes
Yes, both the EST3 and 3X are discontinued. Edwards will continue making replacement parts for another 1-2 years.
Interesting. I kinda wonder how new ones are still being installed then (now seeing that it’s been gone since 2023).
Well, perhaps Edwards still has plenty left in stock even after production ended & so they’re still being installed so as to get rid of said stock.
Didn’t think of that, but makes sense
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I believe I used to be biased towards them, but ever since I started realizing just how much Johnson Controls International has ruined Simplex since their 2016 acquisition of them I’ve been an Edwards person instead (since they seem to have not fallen to the same corporate greed & corruption that seemingly every other company has).
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A way to save money on service is to keep a whishlist maintained and when scheduling service tell them everything you want done. Not all service technicians have the knowledge and abilities to make complex changes. Also if you get parts on ebay to replace your own, the service technician can upgrade and/or align the software/firmwares as needed.
for the TSW, i have seen multiple customers relocating the network card in regular computers(i don’t recommend that), with software version 6 and beyond it might need a license refresh.
I guess that all makes sense, but not only does that seem to have nothing at all to do with what I said, I’m not so sure using third-party parts like those off Ebay on actual life safety systems is a good idea (in fact regulations may make that outright illegal, since it’s dangerous).
as long as the firmwares are aligned, no physical damage and all features tested i don’t see what the big deal is.
There’s still serious liability & reliability concerns with using non-new/third-party parts, no? That to me just seems to make sense.
What happens when parts get discontinued? It’s either you buy from other source sometimes used or you might have to upgrade a significant part of your fire system.
Johnson Controls has been supporting old parts for a long time but due to component availability, they had to change their designs, and some of these parts are not a direct replacement.
As I said for these used parts in my opinion, if they are not damaged and if they’re tested properly, don’t see any issue using them.
I’m pretty sure that at that point there’s basically no option for the customer but to upgrade, which just makes sense as it both prevents the system from being unexpectedly &/or unintentionally crippled by usage of unorthodox/unapproved parts & also keeps it up-to-date since it’ll have a brand-new panel.
Just recently a quote was generated to replace a faulty SPS by ES-PS, RUI+, Bay, idnet card and conventional card for about 4200$. There was not really any benefit beside having a fully functional panel. You could get a used SPS for a fraction of that cost.
If the customer has the money sure, but if they don’t and willing to go through the additional hassle it’s their choice.
Basically this, and more specifically when using non-approved components, you would likely void the UL listing which is a certification that is often required to meet code in many areas.
So in a case where a panel is down and needs an obsolete part, the answer would be to upgrade or get one from another supplier. (which would be the most cost effective solution.)
Getting it used (or new, plenty of 3rd party suppliers) is probably the way to go, and any fire alarm service tech could swap it out. Replacing an SPS with the ES-PS kit would most likley require a master controller upgrade, and depending on other factors (like if it was part of a network) it could open up a can of worms.
That’s what I thought. No idea why Johnson thought doing so was perfectly fine when it’s not (especially since he seems to be a technician & thus should know what regulations say).
It’s not something people would always think of, especially when the goal is to get the FACP up and running again as quickly as possible so they don’t need to keep paying $1000 (or more) per day for a fire watch. And normally it isn’t something that will ever come up (fire marshal/inspector will test functionality of a system, but not likely to pay attention to the components used.)
But when it makes a difference is when something goes wrong, and god forbid somebody loses their life, THEN the questions are asked and anyone involved will want to be 100% SURE that they did everything correctly - because if they didn’t, the consequences can be life-altering.
Yeah: it’s that kind of short-sightedness & ignorance of regulations that’s gotten people killed (& that will continue to get people killed unless they actually start paying attention like they’re supposed to for that matter).
Anyone that signs an NFPA form needs to understand that their name will be one of the first that comes up when the insurance companies or courts are looking for somebody to blame! And they will be the first to point out anything that’s changed since they signed it…
Just something that anyone working in fire alarm (or life safety) needs to be aware of! There’s a lot at stake, and it pays to do things the right way once people are trying to shift the blame on to others.
Here is the deal… plain and simple.
You are not licenced. I do not care what educational background you have.
IF that alarm fails to trip and someone dies or gets hurt you will be held criminally responsible. If the building owner does not feel they need to budget for this to provide a quality and proper fix… that is on them. Do not put your self in the middle.
1,000 bucks will buy a low level conventional panel and a few hours of a licenced technicians time.
I am frankly tired of seeing people not qualified trying to fix a life safety alarm system to save a few bucks because there is no clear cut return on the investment or they think they can handle it.
The return on a few grand for a quality alarm? A life saved.
The return on a non qualified guy buing ebay parts to fix an alarm the boss is to cheap to pay for? Jail time and loosing many lawsuits.