Silent Knight 5104B help

Fire Alarm Help
101

It doesn’t look like any of those will work on 12V, and even the 2903 I’m not so sure if it is a good idea.

If you get the panel running and need NA’s for it, I would recommend trying to pick up a Wheelock MT 12/24. You can find them pretty cheap and they are pretty much 8 alarms in one, as well as operating both on the 12V you need now and the 24V you may upgrade to in the future.

Kinda sliding off topic here but I will answer your question, the third jumper on the SHG is not used and serves no purpose whatsoever. I like to use it to store the 4th jumper plug when I have it removed (to set the unit to march-time code).

Unfortunately, I think you are in a deadlock, so to speak. You will need to get a 5230 to program the panel, and even then there could be damage that shows up which we can only speculate on now. Keep checking eBay, someone is bound to throw one out there that’s beat-up and cheap, either that or they don’t know the potential “value” of what they’re selling and just throw it out there. In the meantime, you could consider using the money you would spend on the 5230 on a more suitable control unit. You can likely find a replacement unit cheaper than what it would be to acquire a 5230 to get the old unit running.

102

I have a 12 volt relay from an old toyota that actually still works, should I use THAT?

103

Once you start connecting things to devices where they shouldn’t be, you open up a whole new set of problems. Stick to the correct devices for the unit to avoid issues. FA devices already have all the components to protect the panel installed within them, such as polarization and (electromechanical only) back-EMF suppression. The relay lacks both of these, which starts you out on the path towards more problems and potential damage to the panel.

104

At this point, I’m like “Okay, why not take a break and keep trying tomorrow?” I’m certain that the panel just needs to be programmed so the bell circuit is enabled.

105

Again, if the default programming code has changed, even if you manage to get a keypad to program it, you won’t be able to access the programming menu. I’m not sure if the 5104B has a backdoor, either.
As for another 12v signal, the System Sensor P1224MC multi-candela Spectralert Classic should also serve you well.
I agree with Nick as well. This is beginning to be more trouble than its worth to try and jury-rig a communicator to work as a fire alarm control unit. You could try a 5207 control panel/communicator with a 5230 annunciator. If you look hard enough you should be able to find one for pretty cheap.
It’s all a waiting game! I just got my MS-9050UD not too long ago but I can’t keep it in my dorm, so I’ll have to wait until the holidays to use it, so I know your pain.

106

Then welcome aboard the Train of Dissapointment, friend… No, the 5104B has NO backdoor, trust me, I don’t even think that you’re able to factory default the panel the EASY way, to begin with, unless I’m not looking hard enough. I think I’ll just wait for a 5230 to come up for a good price, or for christmas, who knows.

107

Hi!

It’s been forever (not really) since I said ANYTHING on this site/forum topic, and that’s for a few reasons:

  1. I’ve been ABSOLUTELY busy, and have done all kinds of stuff not fire alarm-wise. I’ll explain later.
  2. As we all know, the site went down one day, which is sad, because this is one heck of a site! and the drives and backup died! insert other explainations
    and 3) I’ve been doing stuff that IS fire alarm-wise, which I will explain now:

When I said that I had to wait, well, low and behold- about 6 months or so ago, not sure, I FINALLY got a 5230, I did some messing around, and now I know what my panel is crabbin’ at me about, of course, there was no battery, until another month or so later, I got a battery. When I brought the issue up with my dad for the 5th time, or so, he asked me to check the components, low and behold, a capacitor is only on ONE, that’s right, ONE leg, and it’s the one thats closest to the on-board silence/reset button and the bell circuit! So I was like “Well, there it is then!” The capacitor on one leg was the problem the whole time! The leg came off during shipping! I’m not entirely certain if it can still be fixed, or if I should just replace it! I know this goes off of my panel, but I now have a System Sensor PC2W, finally, something that works with 12V! I’m also scrapping the relay idea, I’m fairly certain that relays produce back emf, which can screw my panel up! I don’t have a way to keep the back emf from killing my panel, but here’s what I see though, electromechanical bells use the same electromagnet that relays use (maybe), and THAT would more than likely produce back emf, but I think that the bells would have a diode or two, or more, right at the terminals… Nah, I’m going crazy!

So, now that I have a 5230, a battery, and a capacitor with only one leg, no, the capacitor is not blown, for those who are wondering, now what?

I almost forgot, the generic explaination:

Sorry, you’ll have to request it, can’t give it out while begging for help! (Sarcasim intended at “begging for help!”)

108

Also more info I forgot to add in:

I turned the bell circuit supervision on, I still had a bell trouble, even with a resistor, but the capacitor story just about covers this, and good lordy! Looking back at some of the posts on this forum, MAN I must’ve been a giant idiot!

109

Great to hear you’ve made some progress on getting the thing working!

I’ve attached a picture below. Is that the capacitor that is broken? The 5104B appears to have had at least two variations in the way the PCB is laid out so please correct me if your board does not look like this one.

First of all, now that you have the 5230, I would try to go into the programming and remove all programmed numbers. That way, if you ever decide to plug it into a phone line to see if the phone line trouble will clear, you will not accidentally transmit an alarm. However, I still do not recommend connecting it the the phone line whatsoever. Better safe the sorry.

After that, looks like it’s time to repair that capacitor! If you don’t have the means to do it yourself, see if you can get the help of a school shop teacher or a friend in the electrical field. They are likely to have the tools and might be willing to help you re-solder the component.

If you can’t find anyone to do the soldering for you, this just maybe be a great time to learn! :smiley: I’d recommend this kit to start off: Amazon.com: Elenco AmeriKit Learn to Solder Kit : Tools & Home Improvement. It has everything you’d need to get started, so practice, practice, practice! Later on when you’ve gotten the hang of using the soldering iron, let us know and we can help you tackle that capacitor. Its a very simple job once you know how to use the tools.

1 Like
110

Yes, it’s that EXACT capacitor! Board looks EXACTLY the same detail for detail! As for “better safe than sorry”, Agreed! says “better safe than sorry” 10 times Yeah, the capacitor needs a fix-up, but I doubt there’s a leg left, so I’ll have to de-solder it, bring it into fry’s electronics, get a replacement, and slap that one in, I can do it myself, but my dad has more experience than me, but I have enough experience to do it myself. My only issue is: my hair is long enough to cover my whole face, so I will need something to tie my hair down. “Practice, practice, practice!” I agree, because “practice makes perfect!” But, one time I burned a cut on one of my fingers, burned enough hair, and melted enough stuff when I tried to fix a headset I once had. After some time, I just tossed the headset and asked for another one. But then again, I do have a power supply I need to replace, I have an xbox 360 (power supply for it is dead, left it running for too long) and an XBOX ONE (currently using). So I may not have enough moneys to replace both the capacitor and the power supply, my original plan with it was to use a cutoff wheel attachment for the dremel (however it’s spelled) tool, pop the power supply apart, and see what went down, if maybe a component went dead, like a capacitor ran dry, or if the fuse blew, if the transformer itself is dead, then I have no choice but to replace the unit itself, but keep the console, for sure!

111

Right, so, forever later, I still have issues with the line, but it looks like my panel won’t be calling me for a while, the line in my office (bedroom) is DISCONNECTED! Routers don’t seem to help, and capacitor is still crippled, as we speak,
I’m running a battery run-down test.

Timer is on 3 1/2 hours at time of post, can’t show panel on battery mode because of http error!

112

UPDATE: I’m starting to lose hope, I’ve replaced the capacitor, but it still doesn’t work, I’m starting to think my panel has a CPU fault of some sort. The Bell Circuit is enabled, but I think the panel itself is done, but I also believe that I may not have enough solder on the contacts.

Any ideas?

113

Sorry to hear you’re still having trouble with your panel.

I remember in the past you were unable to send us photos of the panel. However, do you have any way to post a picture of the panel now so we can see its condition and the wiring connections you have?

114

I’m going to try! Hold on for a second.

115

Unfortunately, no, I keep getting an HTTP error from the site, I’m using an iPhone 5C, but the new capacitor has the same specs, except it’s black, I wonder if the label is backwards, because I installed it the same way as the original.

116

Yeah, the image attachment feature is still a bit wonky. I’d suggest uploading the images on a third-party image-hosting site, like Photobucket or Imgur, and linking the images that way using the IMG tag.

117

Meh, I don’t have accounts for those sites, so therefore I don’t think I’ll be able to upload images anytime soon. But I can guarantee that the only change to the panel that was made is the new capacitor.

118

You don’t need an account to upload to imgur. Just make sure you use the link it gives you when you upload the image.

119

You matched + to + and - to - right?

120

No offense, but I think you’re being sarcastic.

I did, but I think the capacitor itself has a backwards label.